{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":6.535,"endTime":10.555,"body":"Hello, and"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":6.535,"endTime":10.555,"body":"welcome to Season 6, Episode 1"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":10.555,"endTime":13.105,"body":"of the Virtual Coffee podcast."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":10.555,"endTime":13.105,"body":"I'm Bekah --"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":15.875,"endTime":17.315,"body":"Woohoo! [Dan and Bekah"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":15.875,"endTime":17.315,"body":"chuckle] We're back!"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":18.356,"endTime":22.495,"body":"We are back. We are back"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":18.356,"endTime":22.495,"body":"featuring members of the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":22.495,"endTime":26.175,"body":"Virtual Coffee community. A"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":22.495,"endTime":26.175,"body":"community that is an intimate"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":26.175,"endTime":27.905,"body":"group of developers at all"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":26.175,"endTime":27.905,"body":"stages of their coding journey."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":27.905,"endTime":29.635,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":29.635,"endTime":32.045,"body":"they're here, on this podcast,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":29.635,"endTime":32.045,"body":"sharing their stories, and what"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":32.045,"endTime":36.0,"body":"they've learned. And we're here"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":32.045,"endTime":36.0,"body":"to share it with you. Obviously,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":36.0,"endTime":40.24,"body":"here with me today [chuckles] is"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":36.0,"endTime":40.24,"body":"my co-host, Dan."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":41.42,"endTime":43.256,"body":"Wuddup, Bek. How's it"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":41.42,"endTime":43.256,"body":"going?"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":43.78,"endTime":46.21,"body":"Do you do that every"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":43.78,"endTime":46.21,"body":"Season 1 intro?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":46.856,"endTime":50.0,"body":"I ... hope so. Probably"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":46.856,"endTime":50.0,"body":"not. But now I will."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":51.0,"endTime":52.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":52.0,"endTime":52.93,"body":"From here on out. Yes."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":52.93,"endTime":54.0,"body":"Will you remember that,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":52.93,"endTime":54.0,"body":"in Season 7?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":54.0,"endTime":54.0,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":55.0,"endTime":55.96,"body":"Hmm. Okay."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":55.96,"endTime":58.67,"body":"But, it probably won't be"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":55.96,"endTime":58.67,"body":"the only time I say, 'Wuddup,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":58.67,"endTime":61.926,"body":"Bek,' [Bekah chuckles] either,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":58.67,"endTime":61.926,"body":"so, you know? How's it going?"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":62.706,"endTime":66.251,"body":"It's going great! Because"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":62.706,"endTime":66.251,"body":"we're launching the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":66.251,"endTime":67.24,"body":"new season of the podcast."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":71.24,"endTime":75.0,"body":"Woohoo! [Dan and Bekah"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":71.24,"endTime":75.0,"body":"chuckle] Yes, we are. It was"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":75.0,"endTime":77.921,"body":"-- Season 5 was pretty awesome."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":78.1,"endTime":81.215,"body":"And Season 6 is also gonna be"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":78.1,"endTime":81.215,"body":"awesome [chuckles]."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":81.355,"endTime":82.788,"body":"It is true. It is always"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":81.355,"endTime":82.788,"body":"awesome. We are consistent in"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":82.788,"endTime":84.221,"body":"one"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":84.221,"endTime":88.24,"body":"thing, and one thing only. And"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":84.221,"endTime":88.24,"body":"it is having awesome people on"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":88.245,"endTime":88.786,"body":"our podcast."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":89.305,"endTime":95.141,"body":"Yes. Agreed. So, yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":89.305,"endTime":95.141,"body":"we are starting Season 6 off"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":95.35,"endTime":98.935,"body":"with ... an awesome guest"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":95.35,"endTime":98.935,"body":"[laughs], of the name, David"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":98.935,"endTime":102.52,"body":"Alpert. David is"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":102.521,"endTime":107.021,"body":"a director -- no, wait. What is"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":102.521,"endTime":107.021,"body":"he? I lost it. David is the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":107.021,"endTime":111.971,"body":"Director of Engineering, sorry,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":107.021,"endTime":111.971,"body":"at Northfield IT. And one of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":111.971,"endTime":116.74,"body":"the many Canadians we have in"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":111.971,"endTime":116.74,"body":"Virtual Coffee, and also on the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":116.74,"endTime":119.38,"body":"podcast [chuckles]. Not the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":116.74,"endTime":119.38,"body":"first, won't be the last. And"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":119.38,"endTime":122.02,"body":"yeah, we had"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":122.021,"endTime":123.686,"body":"a really great time talking to"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":122.021,"endTime":123.686,"body":"David."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":124.195,"endTime":126.835,"body":"Yeah. David is one of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":124.195,"endTime":126.835,"body":"those conversations that could"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":126.835,"endTime":131.126,"body":"have continued on, for sure,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":126.835,"endTime":131.126,"body":"beyond the hour. He has so much"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":131.156,"endTime":136.165,"body":"insight into — not just like the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":131.156,"endTime":136.165,"body":"technology field, but in working"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":136.165,"endTime":141.116,"body":"with other people. And he -- I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":136.165,"endTime":141.116,"body":"really appreciated his"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":141.116,"endTime":145.855,"body":"thoughtfulness in how he"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":141.116,"endTime":145.855,"body":"approaches other people, and"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":145.855,"endTime":146.575,"body":"supporting them."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":147.806,"endTime":148.645,"body":"Yeah. Absolutely. That, I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":147.806,"endTime":148.645,"body":"mean, like, that- that's gotta"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":148.645,"endTime":149.484,"body":"be one of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":149.485,"endTime":151.232,"body":"the first things I think of when"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":149.485,"endTime":151.232,"body":"I- when I think of David is- is,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":151.232,"endTime":152.979,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":152.98,"endTime":158.02,"body":"Thoughtfulness, and- and ... I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":152.98,"endTime":158.02,"body":"don't know. I, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":158.35,"endTime":160.375,"body":"thoughtful and- and empathetic"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":158.35,"endTime":160.375,"body":"is- is -- what the -- he's one"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":160.375,"endTime":162.4,"body":"of the, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":162.401,"endTime":165.61,"body":"he's- he's always on Slack, and"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":162.401,"endTime":165.61,"body":"he's ... I- [chuckles] I dunno."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":165.61,"endTime":168.819,"body":"Like,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":168.82,"endTime":170.23,"body":"everybody loves him. He's always"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":168.82,"endTime":170.23,"body":"so great to talk to. Anytime you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":170.23,"endTime":171.64,"body":"--"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":171.67,"endTime":173.711,"body":"anytime you're kinda working"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":171.67,"endTime":173.711,"body":"through something or have some"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":174.341,"endTime":175.0,"body":"existential crisis [chuckles]-"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":175.0,"endTime":175.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":175.0,"endTime":176.0,"body":"-I feel like David's one of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":175.0,"endTime":176.0,"body":"those- one of those people"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":176.0,"endTime":181.841,"body":"that will show up and ... you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":176.0,"endTime":181.841,"body":"know, act- like, actually"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":181.841,"endTime":184.211,"body":"have constructive ways to maybe"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":181.841,"endTime":184.211,"body":"work through some- some hard"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":184.211,"endTime":186.312,"body":"problems and stuff. It's- it's"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":184.211,"endTime":186.312,"body":"really- it's really nice having"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":186.312,"endTime":186.973,"body":"him around."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":187.631,"endTime":191.95,"body":"Yeah. And- and the --"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":187.631,"endTime":191.95,"body":"that empathy that he brings to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":191.95,"endTime":199.181,"body":"the situation is really ..."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":191.95,"endTime":199.181,"body":"authentic and true, you know?"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":199.181,"endTime":202.121,"body":"Somebody might check in and see"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":199.181,"endTime":202.121,"body":"how you're doing, but, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":202.126,"endTime":205.781,"body":"if you get a message from David,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":202.126,"endTime":205.781,"body":"he means that. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":205.781,"endTime":209.381,"body":"goes a long way to supporting"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":205.781,"endTime":209.381,"body":"people, and helping them feel"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":209.381,"endTime":214.0,"body":"comfortable, and allowing them"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":209.381,"endTime":214.0,"body":"to, you know, grow and- and"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":214.0,"endTime":215.651,"body":"learn in those ways, and support"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":214.0,"endTime":215.651,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":216.377,"endTime":224.027,"body":"Absolutely. Okay. What is"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":216.377,"endTime":224.027,"body":"our random question? How do"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":224.027,"endTime":225.0,"body":"we start the episode [chuckles]?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":224.027,"endTime":225.0,"body":"Bekah, how are we"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":225.0,"endTime":226.907,"body":"gonna start this episode"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":225.0,"endTime":226.907,"body":"[chuckles]?"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":228.872,"endTime":229.473,"body":"[Chuckles] Well ... well"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":228.872,"endTime":229.473,"body":"--"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":230.992,"endTime":231.203,"body":"[Laughs] I don't know."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":234.336,"endTime":238.447,"body":"Why don't- why don't we,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":234.336,"endTime":238.447,"body":"in the first episode, intro"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":238.447,"endTime":239.796,"body":"talk about the other guests too?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":241.401,"endTime":245.0,"body":"Oh, totally. Yeah. [Bekah"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":241.401,"endTime":245.0,"body":"and Dan chuckle] I don't"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":245.0,"endTime":247.149,"body":"know. I haven't done this for a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":245.0,"endTime":247.149,"body":"while."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":247.149,"endTime":250.209,"body":"We're excited about this"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":247.149,"endTime":250.209,"body":"episode, and the rest of the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":250.209,"endTime":256.418,"body":"season. So, we're also going to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":250.209,"endTime":256.418,"body":"be talking to ... Bogdan about"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":256.418,"endTime":259.959,"body":"navigating tech career paths. We"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":256.418,"endTime":259.959,"body":"have quite a bit of career path"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":260.259,"endTime":263.649,"body":"episodes this season. So, we're"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":260.259,"endTime":263.649,"body":"gonna be learning about what it"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":263.649,"endTime":268.872,"body":"means to be a demo engineer, a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":263.649,"endTime":268.872,"body":"developer educator, we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":268.872,"endTime":270.762,"body":"be talking through interviews,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":268.872,"endTime":270.762,"body":"and open source contributions."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":270.762,"endTime":272.652,"body":"So, I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":272.653,"endTime":276.327,"body":"think this is a pretty well"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":272.653,"endTime":276.327,"body":"rounded season to ... I don't"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":276.327,"endTime":280.001,"body":"know ..."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":280.483,"endTime":282.0,"body":"get you excited about all"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":280.483,"endTime":282.0,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":283.0,"endTime":284.0,"body":"Yeah. I'm excited about all"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":283.0,"endTime":284.0,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":284.0,"endTime":285.973,"body":"Am I spinning chair? I've"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":284.0,"endTime":285.973,"body":"got a spinny chair this season."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":286.077,"endTime":288.838,"body":"You have -- yes. Bekah got"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":286.077,"endTime":288.838,"body":"a spinny chair and she has not"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":288.838,"endTime":290.127,"body":"stopped spinning since she got"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":288.838,"endTime":290.127,"body":"it [chuckles]."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":290.293,"endTime":292.632,"body":"It is the best thing. I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":290.293,"endTime":292.632,"body":"just continue to spin."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":292.858,"endTime":296.788,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. It's- it's --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":292.858,"endTime":296.788,"body":"well, it is what it is. I feel"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":296.788,"endTime":300.387,"body":"like you're doing a good job of,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":296.788,"endTime":300.387,"body":"like, rotating around your"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":300.387,"endTime":301.722,"body":"microphone and staying in a good"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":300.387,"endTime":301.722,"body":"speaking position though. Though"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":301.722,"endTime":303.057,"body":"--"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":303.208,"endTime":304.047,"body":"Yeah. I'm trying to keep"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":303.208,"endTime":304.047,"body":"my head straight on the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":304.047,"endTime":304.886,"body":"microphone. See-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":304.918,"endTime":305.908,"body":"So, well done. Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":304.918,"endTime":305.908,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":305.908,"endTime":307.827,"body":"-my body turns, but my"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":305.908,"endTime":307.827,"body":"head ... do- does minimal"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":307.827,"endTime":309.746,"body":"turning."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":310.317,"endTime":312.958,"body":"Yeah. No. It's -- you-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":310.317,"endTime":312.958,"body":"you're doing a good job."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":313.317,"endTime":319.192,"body":"Thanks. That's all I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":313.317,"endTime":319.192,"body":"needed to hear today. But we are"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":319.192,"endTime":323.182,"body":"going to start this episode of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":319.192,"endTime":323.182,"body":"the podcast like we start every"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":323.182,"endTime":327.141,"body":"episode of the podcast and every"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":323.182,"endTime":327.141,"body":"Virtual Coffee. Say our name,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":327.172,"endTime":330.831,"body":"where we're from, what we do,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":327.172,"endTime":330.831,"body":"and answer a random check-in"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":330.831,"endTime":334.281,"body":"question. So we hope you enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":330.831,"endTime":334.281,"body":"this episode and the rest of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":334.281,"endTime":339.663,"body":"Season 6. Today's random"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":334.281,"endTime":339.663,"body":"check-in question is, if you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":339.663,"endTime":345.045,"body":"could"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":345.045,"endTime":350.055,"body":"magically become fluent in any"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":345.045,"endTime":350.055,"body":"language, what would it be? My"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":350.055,"endTime":355.005,"body":"name is Bekah. I am a technical"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":350.055,"endTime":355.005,"body":"community builder from a small"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":355.011,"endTime":359.763,"body":"town in Ohio, and ... I think I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":355.011,"endTime":359.763,"body":"would go with Polish, only"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":359.763,"endTime":364.515,"body":"because I'm"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":364.516,"endTime":367.343,"body":"mostly Polish and I would like"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":364.516,"endTime":367.343,"body":"to know more of it. It's"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":367.343,"endTime":370.17,"body":"definitely not"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":370.17,"endTime":373.831,"body":"the most practical, but it's"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":370.17,"endTime":373.831,"body":"probably the most meaningful."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":374.75,"endTime":375.709,"body":"All right, Polish."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":376.579,"endTime":378.949,"body":"Yes. See, that was the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":376.579,"endTime":378.949,"body":"most straightforward-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":377.0,"endTime":378.5,"body":"[Laughs] Yeah, yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":377.0,"endTime":378.5,"body":"I know, I know [chuckles]. I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":378.5,"endTime":380.0,"body":"don't --"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":378.949,"endTime":379.75,"body":"-I've ever been in an"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":378.949,"endTime":379.75,"body":"intro."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":380.6,"endTime":385.91,"body":"Yeah. Okay. Hi, I'm Dan. I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":380.6,"endTime":385.91,"body":"do web development things"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":386.029,"endTime":392.42,"body":"in Cleveland. And, yeah. I don't"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":386.029,"endTime":392.42,"body":"know. Languages are hard."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":392.75,"endTime":394.31,"body":"I -- this is an attractive"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":392.75,"endTime":394.31,"body":"question to me because I- I'm"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":394.31,"endTime":395.87,"body":"bad"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":395.87,"endTime":398.3,"body":"at, like, learning languages. I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":395.87,"endTime":398.3,"body":"took like three years of German,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":398.3,"endTime":401.0,"body":"and, like, I struggled with"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":398.3,"endTime":401.0,"body":"Spanish in college, and I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":401.0,"endTime":402.139,"body":"don't -- I took three"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":402.199,"endTime":403.804,"body":"years of German. I don't know. I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":402.199,"endTime":403.804,"body":"can still count to 10, I think."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":403.804,"endTime":405.409,"body":"But,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":405.5,"endTime":407.6,"body":"you know, Spanish would be -- I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":405.5,"endTime":407.6,"body":"think- I think I'm gonna choose"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":407.6,"endTime":412.1,"body":"Spanish. I, you know, it just,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":407.6,"endTime":412.1,"body":"it -- I- I like going to"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":412.1,"endTime":414.0,"body":"Mexican restaurants [chuckles]."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":412.1,"endTime":414.0,"body":"I like, you know, and there-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":414.0,"endTime":415.31,"body":"there's a lot of Spanish"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":415.31,"endTime":419.269,"body":"speaking people, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":415.31,"endTime":419.269,"body":"America, and, although"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":419.329,"endTime":421.204,"body":"Japanese would be cool too. I- I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":419.329,"endTime":421.204,"body":"love, like, listening to"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":421.204,"endTime":423.079,"body":"Japanese,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":423.56,"endTime":425.164,"body":"you know? People speaking"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":423.56,"endTime":425.164,"body":"Japanese. I like -- I just like"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":425.164,"endTime":426.768,"body":"the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":426.769,"endTime":428.239,"body":"way it sounds. So, that'd be"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":426.769,"endTime":428.239,"body":"cool too. And- and it's so"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":428.239,"endTime":429.709,"body":"different"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":429.709,"endTime":432.319,"body":"than English that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":429.709,"endTime":432.319,"body":"that's one -- that's really hard"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":432.379,"endTime":434.149,"body":"for me to wrap my head around"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":432.379,"endTime":434.149,"body":"ever ... being able to speak"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":434.149,"endTime":435.919,"body":"[chuckles]. So"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":435.92,"endTime":438.47,"body":"I'm- I'm kind of tied 50-50,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":435.92,"endTime":438.47,"body":"Spanish and Japanese. That's"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":438.47,"endTime":439.069,"body":"gonna be my answer."},{"speaker":"David Alpert","startTime":440.865,"endTime":442.77,"body":"Well, since Dan"},{"speaker":"David Alpert","startTime":440.865,"endTime":442.77,"body":"said to you, I'm gonna say to"},{"speaker":"David Alpert","startTime":442.77,"endTime":444.675,"body":"you. My"},{"speaker":"David Alpert","startTime":444.675,"endTime":449.415,"body":"name is David Alpert. And I'm-"},{"speaker":"David Alpert","startTime":444.675,"endTime":449.415,"body":"I'm a software developer and"},{"speaker":"David Alpert","startTime":449.444,"endTime":456.019,"body":"DevOps engineer in Winnipeg,"},{"speaker":"David Alpert","startTime":449.444,"endTime":456.019,"body":"Manitoba. And I was having a"},{"speaker":"David Alpert","startTime":456.019,"endTime":459.0,"body":"hard time picking just one. So"},{"speaker":"David Alpert","startTime":456.019,"endTime":459.0,"body":"since Dan set the example-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":459.0,"endTime":460.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":460.0,"endTime":462.0,"body":"-my first thought was"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":460.0,"endTime":462.0,"body":"Indonesian. Because I spent"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":462.0,"endTime":463.189,"body":"some time in Indonesia and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":463.194,"endTime":465.486,"body":"I remember just enough"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":463.194,"endTime":465.486,"body":"Indonesian to say some things to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":465.486,"endTime":467.778,"body":"Ayu, for"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":467.779,"endTime":469.669,"body":"example, in our community. But"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":467.779,"endTime":469.669,"body":"I'm no -- by no means, fluent."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":469.669,"endTime":471.559,"body":"And it"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":471.56,"endTime":475.91,"body":"would just be so much fun to be"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":471.56,"endTime":475.91,"body":"fluent a-again, or more, in"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":475.91,"endTime":480.064,"body":"Indonesian. But then, Bekah,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":475.91,"endTime":480.064,"body":"when you mentioned Polish, I- I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":480.064,"endTime":481.624,"body":"thought Hebrew because that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":480.064,"endTime":481.624,"body":"would connect me with some of my"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":481.624,"endTime":483.184,"body":"family"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":483.334,"endTime":486.904,"body":"and some of my tradition, so --"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":483.334,"endTime":486.904,"body":"that I've drifted a little"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":486.904,"endTime":489.125,"body":"bit from. So, Hebrew and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":486.904,"endTime":489.125,"body":"Indonesian."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":490.024,"endTime":490.415,"body":"I like it."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":490.685,"endTime":490.774,"body":"I will go there."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":491.06,"endTime":495.709,"body":"Yeah. Thanks, David."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":491.06,"endTime":495.709,"body":"Normally, I- I ask our guests to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":495.709,"endTime":497.119,"body":"choose one thing, and then I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":495.709,"endTime":497.119,"body":"choose four or five. So"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":497.119,"endTime":498.529,"body":"[chuckles] --"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":499.894,"endTime":501.175,"body":"So we turned the tables"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":499.894,"endTime":501.175,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":502.579,"endTime":503.959,"body":"Yeah. Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":502.579,"endTime":503.959,"body":"podcast. Thanks so much for"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":503.959,"endTime":505.339,"body":"being"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":505.339,"endTime":509.779,"body":"here with us today. We always"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":505.339,"endTime":509.779,"body":"like to start with the origin"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":509.779,"endTime":513.649,"body":"story of our guests. So tell us"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":509.779,"endTime":513.649,"body":"a little bit about your origin"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":513.649,"endTime":515.84,"body":"story, and how that brought you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":513.649,"endTime":515.84,"body":"to where you are today."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":518.66,"endTime":520.715,"body":"Well, I was thinking"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":518.66,"endTime":520.715,"body":"about this question. I love that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":520.715,"endTime":522.77,"body":"you start"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":522.77,"endTime":525.275,"body":"with the origin story, and the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":522.77,"endTime":525.275,"body":"way you frame it as origin. I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":525.275,"endTime":527.78,"body":"can"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":528.25,"endTime":533.03,"body":"remember using the Logo computer"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":528.25,"endTime":533.03,"body":"language to make the little"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":533.03,"endTime":533.03,"body":"turtle-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":533.03,"endTime":535.0,"body":"Yes. Yes."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":534.0,"endTime":537.0,"body":"-draw back and forth. I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":534.0,"endTime":537.0,"body":"don't remember a lot about"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":537.0,"endTime":542.181,"body":"it, but I remember being really"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":537.0,"endTime":542.181,"body":"excited when I discovered loops."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":542.451,"endTime":544.431,"body":"And I didn't even know they were"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":542.451,"endTime":544.431,"body":"called loops, but I could draw"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":544.436,"endTime":549.816,"body":"flowers with not very much ..."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":544.436,"endTime":549.816,"body":"code. So that was pretty"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":549.816,"endTime":552.59,"body":"exciting. And then I went to,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":549.816,"endTime":552.59,"body":"you know, high school, and grew"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":552.59,"endTime":555.364,"body":"up, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":555.666,"endTime":559.775,"body":"lots of things happened. I went"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":555.666,"endTime":559.775,"body":"to university and took a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":559.775,"endTime":562.775,"body":"computer science degree. I wound"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":559.775,"endTime":562.775,"body":"up taking a computer science"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":562.775,"endTime":566.736,"body":"degree. And that taught me a lot"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":562.775,"endTime":566.736,"body":"of fundamentals about"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":566.741,"endTime":570.905,"body":"computer architecture, saying,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":566.741,"endTime":570.905,"body":"like, hardware architecture."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":570.905,"endTime":573.456,"body":"There was a computer engineering"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":570.905,"endTime":573.456,"body":"course in there too. And also"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":573.456,"endTime":578.166,"body":"basics of data structures and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":573.456,"endTime":578.166,"body":"algorithms. So I feel like I got"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":578.166,"endTime":580.775,"body":"a leg up on that, before there"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":578.166,"endTime":580.775,"body":"was any of the ... now all the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":580.775,"endTime":583.384,"body":"code"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":583.39,"endTime":585.755,"body":"camps and everything, the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":583.39,"endTime":585.755,"body":"freeCodeCamps, and the Flatiron"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":585.755,"endTime":587.12,"body":"School, and everything that I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":585.755,"endTime":587.12,"body":"hear about, all the resources"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":587.12,"endTime":588.485,"body":"that are"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":588.485,"endTime":591.02,"body":"available today. I didn't have"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":588.485,"endTime":591.02,"body":"those back -- at that time, so"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":591.02,"endTime":593.555,"body":"-- but"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":593.586,"endTime":595.1,"body":"I was fortunate enough to be"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":593.586,"endTime":595.1,"body":"able to go to this university"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":595.1,"endTime":596.614,"body":"program."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":596.765,"endTime":599.765,"body":"And I studied not only computer"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":596.765,"endTime":599.765,"body":"science, but also it was kind of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":599.765,"endTime":601.595,"body":"a liberal arts-y program. And I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":599.765,"endTime":601.595,"body":"got exposed to all sorts of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":601.595,"endTime":603.425,"body":"other"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":604.16,"endTime":606.591,"body":"things that were not technical"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":604.16,"endTime":606.591,"body":"in the world. And I got very"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":606.591,"endTime":608.961,"body":"distracted, and I didn't want"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":606.591,"endTime":608.961,"body":"anything to do with technology,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":608.961,"endTime":610.79,"body":"and I wanted to go find"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":608.961,"endTime":610.79,"body":"something more meaningful to do."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":610.79,"endTime":612.619,"body":"So I went"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":612.625,"endTime":614.99,"body":"and I traveled. And that's when"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":612.625,"endTime":614.99,"body":"I wound up in Indonesia with an"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":614.99,"endTime":618.711,"body":"exchange program, with ..."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":614.99,"endTime":618.711,"body":"Canadian Crossroads"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":618.711,"endTime":622.341,"body":"International — a cultural"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":618.711,"endTime":622.341,"body":"exchange program, designed to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":622.971,"endTime":625.805,"body":"expose people to different"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":622.971,"endTime":625.805,"body":"cultures. And ... as I was"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":625.805,"endTime":628.639,"body":"proceeding"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":628.64,"endTime":631.363,"body":"with my life, I noticed a common"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":628.64,"endTime":631.363,"body":"thread that ... I would"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":631.363,"endTime":634.086,"body":"constantly notice"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":634.086,"endTime":636.141,"body":"that people around me, that I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":634.086,"endTime":636.141,"body":"cared about — friends, family —"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":636.141,"endTime":638.196,"body":"would"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":638.196,"endTime":643.145,"body":"be stressed or unhappy with"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":638.196,"endTime":643.145,"body":"technology. And they would be"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":643.145,"endTime":644.75,"body":"frustrated, and they would start"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":643.145,"endTime":644.75,"body":"to internalize it. Like, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":644.75,"endTime":646.355,"body":"I'm"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":646.355,"endTime":647.84,"body":"not good at this.\" Or, \"I must"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":646.355,"endTime":647.84,"body":"not be very smart because I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":647.84,"endTime":649.325,"body":"can't"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":649.326,"endTime":651.215,"body":"figure this out.\" And I would"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":649.326,"endTime":651.215,"body":"look at what they were"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":651.215,"endTime":653.104,"body":"struggling"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":653.105,"endTime":655.595,"body":"with, and I was frustrated. I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":653.105,"endTime":655.595,"body":"got frustrated because it wa- I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":655.595,"endTime":658.085,"body":"knew"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":658.091,"endTime":660.0,"body":"enough about technology to know"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":658.091,"endTime":660.0,"body":"that it didn't have to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":660.0,"endTime":662.691,"body":"be that way. And that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":662.691,"endTime":666.98,"body":"what my friends and family were"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":662.691,"endTime":666.98,"body":"struggling with was ... design"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":666.98,"endTime":669.77,"body":"decisions that somebody had made"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":666.98,"endTime":669.77,"body":"that hadn't really thought about"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":670.041,"endTime":673.37,"body":"how they would land on a real"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":670.041,"endTime":673.37,"body":"person. And that's really what"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":673.37,"endTime":677.961,"body":"prompted me to get back into"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":673.37,"endTime":677.961,"body":"technology. And from there,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":677.966,"endTime":681.051,"body":"I've done a number of technology"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":677.966,"endTime":681.051,"body":"jobs -- technology related jobs,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":681.081,"endTime":683.511,"body":"web, front-end — now we would"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":681.081,"endTime":683.511,"body":"call it front-end development."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":683.511,"endTime":685.941,"body":"At"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":685.941,"endTime":689.75,"body":"the time I was starting to learn"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":685.941,"endTime":689.75,"body":"about front-end engineering, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":689.75,"endTime":691.895,"body":"that was back when ... I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":689.75,"endTime":691.895,"body":"remember before Firebug was"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":691.895,"endTime":694.04,"body":"introduced,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":694.041,"endTime":696.591,"body":"like back before Chrome dev"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":694.041,"endTime":696.591,"body":"tools. And then Firebug was a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":696.591,"endTime":700.1,"body":"really big deal. jQuery and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":696.591,"endTime":700.1,"body":"Firebug changed the way we did"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":700.105,"endTime":702.11,"body":"web development, back then."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":702.38,"endTime":702.91,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, it did."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":703.341,"endTime":705.995,"body":"And now -- well, from-"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":703.341,"endTime":705.995,"body":"from there, I got tired of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":705.995,"endTime":708.649,"body":"front-end,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":708.65,"endTime":710.571,"body":"then I got interested in"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":708.65,"endTime":710.571,"body":"backend. So I went and did"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":710.571,"endTime":713.211,"body":"backend. I did a lot of C#. I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":710.571,"endTime":713.211,"body":"did years and years of C#."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":714.275,"endTime":717.426,"body":"In fact, I found, recently, a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":714.275,"endTime":717.426,"body":"commit somewhere in GitHub from"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":717.426,"endTime":720.785,"body":"16 years ago that I did in C#."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":717.426,"endTime":720.785,"body":"I've been writing code"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":720.785,"endTime":721.446,"body":"for a long time."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":723.426,"endTime":726.846,"body":"And from there, I went to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":723.426,"endTime":726.846,"body":"various software developer jobs"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":726.846,"endTime":730.655,"body":"and took some project management"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":726.846,"endTime":730.655,"body":"training, got involved in the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":730.655,"endTime":737.436,"body":"local Winnipeg agile community,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":730.655,"endTime":737.436,"body":"and found my way into builds and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":737.436,"endTime":742.296,"body":"deploys. And that's what got me"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":737.436,"endTime":742.296,"body":"into DevOps. And now, here I am."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":744.62,"endTime":745.0,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":744.62,"endTime":748.071,"body":"That's -- I was gonna say"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":744.62,"endTime":748.071,"body":"great, but --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":748.191,"endTime":749.0,"body":"That- that -- oh, it's"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":748.191,"endTime":749.0,"body":"great. It is great, also. It's"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":749.0,"endTime":752.12,"body":"great and awesome."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":752.48,"endTime":754.0,"body":"No, that- that's a cool ..."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":752.48,"endTime":754.0,"body":"that's -- I- I love having"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":754.0,"endTime":756.23,"body":"people on ... I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":756.23,"endTime":758.0,"body":"love having [chuckles] all of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":756.23,"endTime":758.0,"body":"our guest. It's- it's always"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":758.0,"endTime":759.051,"body":"fun for- for me having"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":759.051,"endTime":761.961,"body":"people on, who started like when"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":759.051,"endTime":761.961,"body":"you started, when I, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":761.966,"endTime":763.223,"body":"know, back a long time ago. I- I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":761.966,"endTime":763.223,"body":"-- Logo, I hadn't thought about"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":763.223,"endTime":764.48,"body":"for a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":764.485,"endTime":767.061,"body":"long time. I- I definitely did"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":764.485,"endTime":767.061,"body":"Logo in, like, the computer lab"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":767.061,"endTime":771.681,"body":"in- in middle school. What I was"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":767.061,"endTime":771.681,"body":"-- I had a question for you."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":771.681,"endTime":774.35,"body":"What was it? Oh, it was ..."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":771.681,"endTime":774.35,"body":"okay. So you mentioned like,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":774.35,"endTime":777.441,"body":"red- like, learning fundamentals"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":774.35,"endTime":777.441,"body":"and learning computer science"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":777.441,"endTime":779.345,"body":"stuff, sort of maybe a ... I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":777.441,"endTime":779.345,"body":"don't know what the -- hard"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":779.345,"endTime":781.249,"body":"computer"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":781.25,"endTime":784.0,"body":"science [chuckles] ... I dunno"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":781.25,"endTime":784.0,"body":"what a good term is for"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":784.0,"endTime":784.88,"body":"it. But, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":784.88,"endTime":786.53,"body":"this -- the kind of stuff that,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":784.88,"endTime":786.53,"body":"at least back in the day you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":786.53,"endTime":788.18,"body":"learned"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":788.181,"endTime":792.11,"body":"in computer science courses in"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":788.181,"endTime":792.11,"body":"college, right, versus"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":792.171,"endTime":796.025,"body":"today, where there's so many"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":792.171,"endTime":796.025,"body":"different, like, places to go."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":796.025,"endTime":799.025,"body":"So many different ways to learn,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":796.025,"endTime":799.025,"body":"so many different approaches to"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":799.025,"endTime":802.446,"body":"learning, even. And I guess the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":799.025,"endTime":802.446,"body":"thought that I had was,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":802.505,"endTime":806.225,"body":"what do you think, like, can you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":802.505,"endTime":806.225,"body":"imagine trying to learn from"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":806.23,"endTime":811.25,"body":"scratch now, and would you want"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":806.23,"endTime":811.25,"body":"to? If you were starting over"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":811.25,"endTime":812.66,"body":"right now [chuckles], right? But"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":811.25,"endTime":812.66,"body":"you have all the stuff"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":812.66,"endTime":814.07,"body":"available. Would"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":814.071,"endTime":816.035,"body":"you rather go that fundamentals"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":814.071,"endTime":816.035,"body":"level and learning stuff,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":816.035,"endTime":817.999,"body":"probably"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":818.005,"endTime":819.668,"body":"in languages that you're never"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":818.005,"endTime":819.668,"body":"going to use in, you know, in-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":819.668,"endTime":821.331,"body":"in"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":821.331,"endTime":822.816,"body":"practical levels, but you're"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":821.331,"endTime":822.816,"body":"getting all the fundamental"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":822.816,"endTime":824.301,"body":"stuff?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":824.6,"endTime":827.0,"body":"Or would you, like, there's"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":824.6,"endTime":827.0,"body":"bootstrap- bootstrap -- no."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":828.0,"endTime":829.4,"body":"Boot-camps [chuckles]. Sorry."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":829.76,"endTime":833.931,"body":"Bootcamps, a-a-and everything"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":829.76,"endTime":833.931,"body":"like that, that will put you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":833.931,"endTime":836.87,"body":"more in a practical place to- to"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":833.931,"endTime":836.87,"body":"get, you know, where- where"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":836.87,"endTime":837.95,"body":"you're learning some"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":836.87,"endTime":837.95,"body":"JavaScripts, and learning React,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":837.95,"endTime":839.03,"body":"and stuff like"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":839.03,"endTime":841.4,"body":"that, even before you ... know"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":839.03,"endTime":841.4,"body":"... maybe some of the more"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":841.4,"endTime":843.77,"body":"esoteric"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":843.801,"endTime":845.405,"body":"pieces of computer science, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":843.801,"endTime":845.405,"body":"know? And so, this is not a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":845.405,"endTime":847.009,"body":"judge-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":847.221,"endTime":848.256,"body":"like, I'm not asking you to"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":847.221,"endTime":848.256,"body":"like, place judgment on"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":848.256,"endTime":849.291,"body":"anything, but"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":849.291,"endTime":850.371,"body":"just, like, from a personal-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":849.291,"endTime":850.371,"body":"personal standpoint. Like,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":850.371,"endTime":851.451,"body":"where- where-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":851.78,"endTime":852.995,"body":"where do you -- like, where"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":851.78,"endTime":852.995,"body":"would you land? Like, where"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":852.995,"endTime":854.21,"body":"would you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":854.27,"endTime":858.23,"body":"personally rather ... start, if"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":854.27,"endTime":858.23,"body":"you could start- [chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":858.23,"endTime":859.37,"body":"if you could start from scratch,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":858.23,"endTime":859.37,"body":"you know, now?"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":859.716,"endTime":861.995,"body":"This is a really good"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":859.716,"endTime":861.995,"body":"question, Dan. And it's come"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":862.0,"endTime":864.426,"body":"up a number of times in Virtual"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":862.0,"endTime":864.426,"body":"Coffee, because we have a number"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":864.426,"endTime":866.39,"body":"of people who are career"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":864.426,"endTime":866.39,"body":"changers or- or early career"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":866.39,"endTime":868.354,"body":"people in"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":868.355,"endTime":869.84,"body":"the- in the community. And"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":868.355,"endTime":869.84,"body":"they're constantly wondering,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":869.84,"endTime":871.325,"body":"\"What"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":871.326,"endTime":872.0,"body":"do I do next?\" and \"What do I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":871.326,"endTime":872.0,"body":"look?\""},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":872.0,"endTime":873.0,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":874.0,"endTime":877.0,"body":"The way you phrased it"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":874.0,"endTime":877.0,"body":"though, for me, if I were to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":877.0,"endTime":881.556,"body":"start now ... I- I -- one of the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":877.0,"endTime":881.556,"body":"things I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":881.556,"endTime":883.775,"body":"notice about the technical"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":881.556,"endTime":883.775,"body":"landscape today, compared to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":883.775,"endTime":885.994,"body":"when"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":885.995,"endTime":890.916,"body":"I started, is it seems to have"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":885.995,"endTime":890.916,"body":"exploded in technologies, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":891.125,"endTime":895.505,"body":"frameworks, and libraries, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":891.125,"endTime":895.505,"body":"possibilities. And I think it"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":895.51,"endTime":898.0,"body":"would -- I would lean towards"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":895.51,"endTime":898.0,"body":"practical first."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":898.0,"endTime":898.0,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":899.0,"endTime":903.0,"body":"Because I think that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":899.0,"endTime":903.0,"body":"would help me learn enough"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":903.0,"endTime":906.801,"body":"about one thing to start to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":903.0,"endTime":906.801,"body":"work."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":906.831,"endTime":911.211,"body":"And really, once you get into --"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":906.831,"endTime":911.211,"body":"once you cross that difficult"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":911.211,"endTime":914.331,"body":"barrier of finding your first"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":911.211,"endTime":914.331,"body":"job in technology, then you can"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":914.331,"endTime":915.0,"body":"get paid to learn-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":916.0,"endTime":917.0,"body":"Absolutely. Yeah."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":916.0,"endTime":920.78,"body":"-as you work. And- and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":916.0,"endTime":920.78,"body":"then you can ... I don't know,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":920.78,"endTime":926.105,"body":"maybe ... I think it would be"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":920.78,"endTime":926.105,"body":"worthwhile to take some survey"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":926.105,"endTime":930.035,"body":"course of the fundamentals, some"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":926.105,"endTime":930.035,"body":"high level survey course so that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":930.035,"endTime":932.165,"body":"you introduce the -- or you-"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":930.035,"endTime":932.165,"body":"you're introduced to the words"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":932.165,"endTime":934.295,"body":"and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":934.296,"endTime":938.706,"body":"phrases, because I find that the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":934.296,"endTime":938.706,"body":"computer science degree helps me"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":938.706,"endTime":942.066,"body":"in two ways. One, that having"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":938.706,"endTime":942.066,"body":"those fundamentals often helps"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":942.066,"endTime":945.605,"body":"me understand new frameworks."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":942.066,"endTime":945.605,"body":"Cuz I kinda understand how"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":945.605,"endTime":947.99,"body":"computers work underneath, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":945.605,"endTime":947.99,"body":"all of the languages and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":947.99,"endTime":950.375,"body":"frameworks."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":950.375,"endTime":953.255,"body":"So learning any particular"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":950.375,"endTime":953.255,"body":"practical framework gets, I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":953.255,"endTime":955.115,"body":"think, easier with that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":953.255,"endTime":955.115,"body":"fundamental background."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":956.046,"endTime":956.436,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":956.495,"endTime":958.0,"body":"But I don't think it's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":956.495,"endTime":958.0,"body":"required to learn how to work"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":958.0,"endTime":959.735,"body":"in any of those"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":959.735,"endTime":962.885,"body":"things. I just think that it"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":959.735,"endTime":962.885,"body":"helps me. The other place I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":962.885,"endTime":966.186,"body":"notice is that it helps me in"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":962.885,"endTime":966.186,"body":"searching for things when I go"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":966.186,"endTime":970.686,"body":"to Google, sometimes. The terms"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":966.186,"endTime":970.686,"body":"and the phrases, I think. I'm"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":970.686,"endTime":974.586,"body":"drawing from that training back"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":970.686,"endTime":974.586,"body":"then. So, that's where I think"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":974.586,"endTime":976.235,"body":"maybe a survey course ..."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":974.586,"endTime":976.235,"body":"without having to go deep in all"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":976.235,"endTime":977.884,"body":"those"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":977.885,"endTime":979.34,"body":"things, because you -- I only"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":977.885,"endTime":979.34,"body":"remember the things that I use."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":979.34,"endTime":980.795,"body":"And-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":980.796,"endTime":981.365,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":981.365,"endTime":981.682,"body":"-we joke -- I mean, we"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":981.365,"endTime":981.682,"body":"work in- in DevOps where caching"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":981.682,"endTime":981.999,"body":"is a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":986.946,"endTime":990.426,"body":"thing. You know, one of the- the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":986.946,"endTime":990.426,"body":"two hard problems in computer"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":990.426,"endTime":994.0,"body":"science [Bekah and Dan chuckle],"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":990.426,"endTime":994.0,"body":"right? And we joke about,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":994.0,"endTime":995.975,"body":"'My memory only holds"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":995.975,"endTime":997.97,"body":"so much,' and, 'I expire things"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":995.975,"endTime":997.97,"body":"for my mental cache when I go"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":997.97,"endTime":999.965,"body":"and-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":999.966,"endTime":1000.0,"body":"[Chuckles] Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":999.966,"endTime":1000.0,"body":"absolutely."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":999.966,"endTime":1001.66,"body":"-learn something new.'"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":999.966,"endTime":1001.66,"body":"You know, you ask me a question"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1001.66,"endTime":1003.354,"body":"about"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1003.355,"endTime":1004.63,"body":"something that I supposedly"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1003.355,"endTime":1004.63,"body":"studied, and, 'I have a cache"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1004.63,"endTime":1005.905,"body":"miss,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1005.905,"endTime":1008.0,"body":"and I have to go look it up.'"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1005.905,"endTime":1008.0,"body":"[Dan laughs] But I do find"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1008.0,"endTime":1009.355,"body":"that things that I have"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1009.355,"endTime":1012.0,"body":"learned and then purged, often"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1009.355,"endTime":1012.0,"body":"come back easier-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1012.0,"endTime":1012.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1012.0,"endTime":1012.0,"body":"Mm."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1013.0,"endTime":1014.0,"body":"-or more easily. So-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1014.0,"endTime":1015.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1015.0,"endTime":1016.0,"body":"-that's a long winded way"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1015.0,"endTime":1016.0,"body":"of to say-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1016.0,"endTime":1017.0,"body":"Yeah!"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1017.0,"endTime":1019.0,"body":"-I would start practical,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1017.0,"endTime":1019.0,"body":"today, because there's so many"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1019.0,"endTime":1021.326,"body":"... widespread things. I think"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1019.0,"endTime":1021.326,"body":"it"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1021.326,"endTime":1024.476,"body":"would take a long time to go"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1021.326,"endTime":1024.476,"body":"from fundamentals to something"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1024.48,"endTime":1026.0,"body":"practical, today. But-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1026.0,"endTime":1026.0,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1026.0,"endTime":1027.931,"body":"-I think if you start"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1026.0,"endTime":1027.931,"body":"today with something"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1027.931,"endTime":1030.013,"body":"practical, you could add- but,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1027.931,"endTime":1030.013,"body":"maybe, just a quick survey of --"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1030.013,"endTime":1032.095,"body":"you don't"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1032.096,"endTime":1033.475,"body":"need to kn- understand all the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1032.096,"endTime":1033.475,"body":"data structures and algorithms."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1033.475,"endTime":1034.854,"body":"But"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1034.855,"endTime":1039.925,"body":"like, if you can name three of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1034.855,"endTime":1039.925,"body":"them, cuz you know they exist,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1039.986,"endTime":1042.536,"body":"then you can search up"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1039.986,"endTime":1042.536,"body":"implementations of them or"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1042.536,"endTime":1043.945,"body":"details about them, when you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1042.536,"endTime":1043.945,"body":"need them."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1044.411,"endTime":1044.681,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1044.681,"endTime":1045.191,"body":"Good idea."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1045.671,"endTime":1048.01,"body":"Oh, I think that -- I love"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1045.671,"endTime":1048.01,"body":"that answer. I, you know, and I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1048.016,"endTime":1049.423,"body":"think I tend to agree with you."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1048.016,"endTime":1049.423,"body":"I per- I mean, also personally,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1049.423,"endTime":1050.83,"body":"I-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1050.921,"endTime":1056.05,"body":"I ... got interested in computer"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1050.921,"endTime":1056.05,"body":"development stuff because of the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1056.681,"endTime":1059.77,"body":"-- like Logo, you know, seeing"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1056.681,"endTime":1059.77,"body":"something happen right away, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1059.77,"endTime":1061.0,"body":"know [chuckles]? Like, hitting"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1059.77,"endTime":1061.0,"body":"save, and then like looking at"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1061.0,"endTime":1062.05,"body":"it, and, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1062.05,"endTime":1065.921,"body":"know, whatever. And so-sometimes"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1062.05,"endTime":1065.921,"body":"-- or- or writing code on a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1065.921,"endTime":1067.975,"body":"chalkboard and stuff like that"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1065.921,"endTime":1067.975,"body":"is like ... was -- I drifted"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1067.975,"endTime":1070.029,"body":"away from"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1070.03,"endTime":1074.411,"body":"it in college because ... I was"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1070.03,"endTime":1074.411,"body":"computer science major to"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1074.411,"endTime":1075.926,"body":"start as well. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1074.411,"endTime":1075.926,"body":"it- it just got less and less-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1075.926,"endTime":1077.441,"body":"[chuckles] less"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1077.441,"endTime":1079.076,"body":"and less like, fun, you know? I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1077.441,"endTime":1079.076,"body":"dunno. But you're right. Like"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1079.076,"endTime":1080.711,"body":"the --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1080.98,"endTime":1083.995,"body":"knowing the ... like, for"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1080.98,"endTime":1083.995,"body":"instance, the Big-O notation,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1083.995,"endTime":1087.01,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1087.01,"endTime":1090.0,"body":"Like, analyzing ho-how a --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1087.01,"endTime":1090.0,"body":"ho-how long a function takes"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1090.0,"endTime":1090.851,"body":"to do a thing, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1090.851,"endTime":1093.76,"body":"know? I don't think anybody"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1090.851,"endTime":1093.76,"body":"that's writing React code for"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1093.76,"endTime":1095.05,"body":"their job needs to know the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1093.76,"endTime":1095.05,"body":"names of all the different --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1095.05,"endTime":1096.34,"body":"you know?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1096.34,"endTime":1100.0,"body":"Or even ... [chuckles] like,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1096.34,"endTime":1100.0,"body":"they don't need to know the --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1100.0,"endTime":1101.651,"body":"even the phrase 'Big-O',"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1101.655,"endTime":1103.663,"body":"right? But knowing that will"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1101.655,"endTime":1103.663,"body":"help you- will help you sort of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1103.663,"endTime":1105.671,"body":"think"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1105.671,"endTime":1107.681,"body":"through and go -- like- like,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1105.671,"endTime":1107.681,"body":"having that in your brain would"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1107.681,"endTime":1109.691,"body":"..."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1110.02,"endTime":1111.85,"body":"in the background, and it's okay"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1110.02,"endTime":1111.85,"body":"if it's expired cache"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1111.85,"endTime":1113.68,"body":"[chuckles], but"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1113.681,"endTime":1115.99,"body":"you'll still like, see something"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1113.681,"endTime":1115.99,"body":"and start like -- it's like code"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1115.99,"endTime":1116.0,"body":"smell, kind of, you know?"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1116.0,"endTime":1117.0,"body":"I know."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1117.0,"endTime":1118.961,"body":"That -- it's just like a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1117.0,"endTime":1118.961,"body":"weird phrase, but"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1118.961,"endTime":1120.76,"body":"like, a phrase that makes a lot"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1118.961,"endTime":1120.76,"body":"of sense to people who have been"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1120.76,"endTime":1123.401,"body":"doing it for a while i-is- is"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1120.76,"endTime":1123.401,"body":"you'll start to get like these"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1123.405,"endTime":1125.0,"body":"instincts or whatever these-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1123.405,"endTime":1125.0,"body":"these -- like, i-it's okay if"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1125.0,"endTime":1126.881,"body":"you don't know the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1126.885,"endTime":1128.278,"body":"exact phrase or I don't remember"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1126.885,"endTime":1128.278,"body":"the exact name of it -- some"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1128.278,"endTime":1129.671,"body":"specific"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1129.79,"endTime":1132.0,"body":"[chuckles] algorithm or anything"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1129.79,"endTime":1132.0,"body":"like that, but ..."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1132.0,"endTime":1134.02,"body":"okay, I know just sort of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1134.02,"endTime":1135.445,"body":"almost intuitively that this"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1134.02,"endTime":1135.445,"body":"thing is going to take, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1135.445,"endTime":1136.87,"body":"way"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1136.871,"endTime":1140.53,"body":"longer ... than it should. And I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1136.871,"endTime":1140.53,"body":"probably can do it a different-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1140.56,"endTime":1141.0,"body":"different way, you know? That-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1140.56,"endTime":1141.0,"body":"that sort of thing."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1141.0,"endTime":1142.0,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1142.0,"endTime":1144.0,"body":"I think that's the sort of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1142.0,"endTime":1144.0,"body":"thing that would hit on"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1144.0,"endTime":1145.211,"body":"your idea of the --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1145.211,"endTime":1148.961,"body":"like, doing- doing a high level,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1145.211,"endTime":1148.961,"body":"you know, survey"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1148.961,"endTime":1150.881,"body":"course, something like that."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1148.961,"endTime":1150.881,"body":"You'll get exposed to some of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1150.885,"endTime":1154.151,"body":"that stuff, even if ... and you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1150.885,"endTime":1154.151,"body":"don't need to know, like, the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1154.151,"endTime":1155.08,"body":"down and dirty details, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1154.151,"endTime":1155.08,"body":"know?"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1155.486,"endTime":1160.645,"body":"Even if we take something"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1155.486,"endTime":1160.645,"body":"that is, like, computer sciencey"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1160.796,"endTime":1163.898,"body":"heavy, like Big-O notation, it's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1160.796,"endTime":1163.898,"body":"very, almost ... theoretical or"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1163.898,"endTime":1167.0,"body":"a-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1167.0,"endTime":1167.98,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1167.98,"endTime":1169.48,"body":"-an academic. Like, it's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1167.98,"endTime":1169.48,"body":"a very academic way to approach"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1169.48,"endTime":1170.98,"body":"this-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1170.98,"endTime":1171.31,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1171.31,"endTime":1173.0,"body":"-technology thing. Not a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1171.31,"endTime":1173.0,"body":"very practical way. But,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1173.0,"endTime":1176.56,"body":"knowing that -- like,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1176.56,"endTime":1179.53,"body":"being able to -- like, knowing"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1176.56,"endTime":1179.53,"body":"that something called Big-O"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1179.53,"endTime":1183.76,"body":"notation exists, being able to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1179.53,"endTime":1183.76,"body":"have one sentence about it, will"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1183.766,"endTime":1189.701,"body":"help you identify when it might"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1183.766,"endTime":1189.701,"body":"be ... in, like, a part of the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1189.701,"endTime":1192.941,"body":"problem you're dealing with, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1189.701,"endTime":1192.941,"body":"give you enough words to go and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1192.941,"endTime":1195.851,"body":"Google the details of how it"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1192.941,"endTime":1195.851,"body":"intersects with the problem"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1195.851,"endTime":1199.691,"body":"you're with. And you don't need"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1195.851,"endTime":1199.691,"body":"to be able to explain it in"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1199.695,"endTime":1200.711,"body":"detail or --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1201.536,"endTime":1201.836,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1201.971,"endTime":1202.0,"body":"Do you see what I mean?"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1201.971,"endTime":1202.0,"body":"So-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1202.0,"endTime":1203.0,"body":"Totally."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1203.0,"endTime":1204.401,"body":"-just knowing that it's a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1203.0,"endTime":1204.401,"body":"thing or"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1204.401,"endTime":1205.931,"body":"knowing that caching is a thing"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1204.401,"endTime":1205.931,"body":"without knowing how caching"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1205.931,"endTime":1207.461,"body":"works"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1207.49,"endTime":1213.0,"body":"or knowing that ... I don't"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1207.49,"endTime":1213.0,"body":"know. The- the one that came"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1213.0,"endTime":1213.941,"body":"to mind as you were"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1213.941,"endTime":1217.0,"body":"talking is that string"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1213.941,"endTime":1217.0,"body":"concatenation is expensive in"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1217.0,"endTime":1218.83,"body":"C# [Bekah and Dan chuckle],"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1218.83,"endTime":1221.29,"body":"for whatever reason. Because"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1218.83,"endTime":1221.29,"body":"strings are immutable in C#."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1221.29,"endTime":1223.75,"body":"They're"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1223.75,"endTime":1225.145,"body":"treated as immutable objects. So"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1223.75,"endTime":1225.145,"body":"every time you're joining"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1225.145,"endTime":1226.54,"body":"strings"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1226.54,"endTime":1228.385,"body":"together, you're allocating"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1226.54,"endTime":1228.385,"body":"extra memory and copying"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1228.385,"endTime":1230.23,"body":"everything"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1230.23,"endTime":1235.03,"body":"over. So it's a very expensive"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1230.23,"endTime":1235.03,"body":"operation. That detail of C#"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1235.03,"endTime":1236.335,"body":"would never have stuck for me if"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1235.03,"endTime":1236.335,"body":"I don't think -- if I didn't"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1236.335,"endTime":1237.64,"body":"know a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1237.641,"endTime":1240.101,"body":"little bit of fundamentals about"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1237.641,"endTime":1240.101,"body":"how memory allocation works."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1241.03,"endTime":1241.871,"body":"Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1242.296,"endTime":1244.845,"body":"I think, too, once you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1242.296,"endTime":1244.845,"body":"are working, you- you're coding"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1244.845,"endTime":1247.394,"body":"more"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1247.395,"endTime":1251.236,"body":"rather than you're learning."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1247.395,"endTime":1251.236,"body":"Those concepts become easier to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1251.236,"endTime":1253.095,"body":"understand, because we- if"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1251.236,"endTime":1253.095,"body":"you're learning, they- they are"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1253.095,"endTime":1254.954,"body":"kind of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1254.955,"endTime":1259.185,"body":"theoretical, right? Because you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1254.955,"endTime":1259.185,"body":"have no use to apply them. Or if"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1259.185,"endTime":1262.486,"body":"you are building a project for a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1259.185,"endTime":1262.486,"body":"bootcamp or something, it's a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1262.486,"endTime":1265.188,"body":"tiny little project. So it"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1262.486,"endTime":1265.188,"body":"doesn't exactly correlate"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1265.188,"endTime":1267.89,"body":"m-much-"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1267.951,"endTime":1271.52,"body":"much of that stuff with what"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1267.951,"endTime":1271.52,"body":"you're doing. So when you have"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1271.52,"endTime":1273.065,"body":"that, like, practical"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1271.52,"endTime":1273.065,"body":"application and you're learning"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1273.065,"endTime":1274.61,"body":"that, like,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1274.641,"endTime":1277.19,"body":"\"Oh, okay. I understand where"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1274.641,"endTime":1277.19,"body":"this would be applied or where I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1277.19,"endTime":1279.739,"body":"would"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1279.746,"endTime":1281.843,"body":"need to reference this idea.\""},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1279.746,"endTime":1281.843,"body":"And, at least for me, it becomes"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1281.843,"endTime":1283.94,"body":"a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1283.941,"endTime":1287.0,"body":"little bit easier once I can see"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1283.941,"endTime":1287.0,"body":"... all right. Th-this is"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1287.0,"endTime":1289.911,"body":"where we need to think about"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1287.0,"endTime":1289.911,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1291.191,"endTime":1294.431,"body":"This- this goes to my"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1291.191,"endTime":1294.431,"body":"understanding of how we learn"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1294.431,"endTime":1296.215,"body":"as humans. Like, we learn better"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1294.431,"endTime":1296.215,"body":"when there's emotion involved,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1296.215,"endTime":1297.999,"body":"we"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1298.0,"endTime":1299.68,"body":"learn better when there's motion"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1298.0,"endTime":1299.68,"body":"involved, we learn better when"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1299.68,"endTime":1301.36,"body":"we"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1301.361,"endTime":1304.608,"body":"have real experience to hang"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1301.361,"endTime":1304.608,"body":"ideas off of. And that just"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1304.608,"endTime":1307.855,"body":"makes"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1307.855,"endTime":1311.846,"body":"intuitive sense to me. That also"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1307.855,"endTime":1311.846,"body":"is why I say go practical. And"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1311.846,"endTime":1313.691,"body":"learn just enough theory to have"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1311.846,"endTime":1313.691,"body":"language ... to know when you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1313.691,"endTime":1315.536,"body":"need"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1315.536,"endTime":1316.586,"body":"to go deeper."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1319.405,"endTime":1321.0,"body":"I am [chuckles] -- so,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1319.405,"endTime":1321.0,"body":"like, writing down, I -- you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1321.0,"endTime":1322.736,"body":"just gave me a new talk idea,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1322.74,"endTime":1326.605,"body":"and the title has to be like"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1322.74,"endTime":1326.605,"body":"motion and emotion. And it has"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1326.611,"endTime":1329.455,"body":"something to do with learning,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1326.611,"endTime":1329.455,"body":"because I think both of those"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1329.455,"endTime":1331.6,"body":"things are, you know, does tie"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1329.455,"endTime":1331.6,"body":"it to our memory. It does allow"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1331.6,"endTime":1333.745,"body":"us"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1333.806,"endTime":1335.605,"body":"to connect with it in a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1333.806,"endTime":1335.605,"body":"different way. And I know that"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1335.605,"endTime":1337.404,"body":"there are"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1337.405,"endTime":1339.685,"body":"people out there, there were"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1337.405,"endTime":1339.685,"body":"people when I was learning that"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1339.685,"endTime":1343.306,"body":"would said, \"We have to learn"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1339.685,"endTime":1343.306,"body":"how to think higher level"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1343.306,"endTime":1344.97,"body":"and theoretically, and how to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1343.306,"endTime":1344.97,"body":"apply that.\" And I don't -- I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1344.97,"endTime":1346.634,"body":"mean,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1346.726,"endTime":1351.766,"body":"my background, I taught college"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1346.726,"endTime":1351.766,"body":"English for 10 years and so I- I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1351.766,"endTime":1353.416,"body":"can think theoretically"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1351.766,"endTime":1353.416,"body":"[chuckles]. It's something that"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1353.416,"endTime":1355.066,"body":"I had to do, but"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1355.066,"endTime":1361.185,"body":"I don't think that we 'have' to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1355.066,"endTime":1361.185,"body":"do that, you know? I- I think"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1361.185,"endTime":1364.306,"body":"that that's a little bit"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1361.185,"endTime":1364.306,"body":"gatekeepy."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1367.51,"endTime":1369.1,"body":"Absolutely. And- and it"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1367.51,"endTime":1369.1,"body":"also presupposes that there's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1369.1,"endTime":1370.69,"body":"only one"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1370.691,"endTime":1374.681,"body":"way to learn and only one way to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1370.691,"endTime":1374.681,"body":"think. And- and that seems to be"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1374.681,"endTime":1379.09,"body":"an idea that was stronger years"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1374.681,"endTime":1379.09,"body":"ago, and now we know better, one"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1379.09,"endTime":1381.911,"body":"of those ideas. Now we recognize"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1379.09,"endTime":1381.911,"body":"that there's a whole spectrum of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1381.911,"endTime":1386.02,"body":"how people think, and process"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1381.911,"endTime":1386.02,"body":"information, and learn, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1386.05,"endTime":1388.931,"body":"view, and interact with the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1386.05,"endTime":1388.931,"body":"world, and experience the world."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1390.371,"endTime":1391.646,"body":"Yeah. And you have a- a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1390.371,"endTime":1391.646,"body":"lot of experience with this,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1391.646,"endTime":1392.921,"body":"especially"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1392.921,"endTime":1396.461,"body":"at Virtual Coffee. For our"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1392.921,"endTime":1396.461,"body":"listeners who aren't in the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1396.461,"endTime":1400.24,"body":"Slack, we have a co-working room"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1396.461,"endTime":1400.24,"body":"where anybody can join at any"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1400.24,"endTime":1402.235,"body":"time. And it's an open Zoom"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1400.24,"endTime":1402.235,"body":"room. And sometimes people are"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1402.235,"endTime":1404.23,"body":"there to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1404.23,"endTime":1407.351,"body":"hang out, sometimes people have"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1404.23,"endTime":1407.351,"body":"questions and they jump into"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1407.355,"endTime":1412.57,"body":"pair. And David i-is one of our"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1407.355,"endTime":1412.57,"body":"cur- our top co-working room"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1412.57,"endTime":1416.5,"body":"attendees, I think. And you've"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1412.57,"endTime":1416.5,"body":"helped a lot of different people"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1416.506,"endTime":1419.945,"body":"in the co-working room. So,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1416.506,"endTime":1419.945,"body":"first of all, thank you. And"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1419.945,"endTime":1421.4,"body":"second of all, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1419.945,"endTime":1421.4,"body":"all ties into what we've been"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1421.4,"endTime":1422.855,"body":"talking"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1422.855,"endTime":1426.006,"body":"about. How do you kind of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1422.855,"endTime":1426.006,"body":"approach people who come in and"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1426.185,"endTime":1428.03,"body":"have questions? Because there"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1426.185,"endTime":1428.03,"body":"are so many different ways of,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1428.03,"endTime":1429.875,"body":"you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1429.881,"endTime":1430.895,"body":"know, talking through things and"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1429.881,"endTime":1430.895,"body":"learning."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1431.171,"endTime":1434.171,"body":"Oh, my gosh. Well, thank"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1431.171,"endTime":1434.171,"body":"you. I love the co-working room."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1434.175,"endTime":1437.411,"body":"It's one of my favorite parts of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1434.175,"endTime":1437.411,"body":"co- of Virtual Coffee and this"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1437.411,"endTime":1442.151,"body":"community that you've created. I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1437.411,"endTime":1442.151,"body":"never know what's gonna"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1442.155,"endTime":1444.221,"body":"happen when I go in there. But I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1442.155,"endTime":1444.221,"body":"always know it's gonna be"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1444.221,"endTime":1444.5,"body":"friendly."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1444.5,"endTime":1444.5,"body":"[Chuckles] Yeah."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1445.0,"endTime":1447.79,"body":"And friendly faces. And"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1445.0,"endTime":1447.79,"body":"in the middle of a pandemic,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1447.796,"endTime":1449.338,"body":"certainly, when I was locked in"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1447.796,"endTime":1449.338,"body":"my room, it was a lifesaver to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1449.338,"endTime":1450.88,"body":"be"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1450.885,"endTime":1453.26,"body":"able to dial it -- like, walking"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1450.885,"endTime":1453.26,"body":"virtually into a room and- and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1453.26,"endTime":1455.635,"body":"meet"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1455.635,"endTime":1460.346,"body":"friendly people. And, one of my"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1455.635,"endTime":1460.346,"body":"favorite co-working room"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1460.346,"endTime":1463.645,"body":"memories is I, you know, often"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1460.346,"endTime":1463.645,"body":"you go in, and there's people"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1463.645,"endTime":1466.016,"body":"who are not sharing a screen,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1463.645,"endTime":1466.016,"body":"and they're just talking. Or"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1466.016,"endTime":1470.276,"body":"sometimes I go in, and there's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1466.016,"endTime":1470.276,"body":"people who are all on mute, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1470.28,"endTime":1472.768,"body":"just enjoying being together."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1470.28,"endTime":1472.768,"body":"And other times, I- I- I logged"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1472.768,"endTime":1475.256,"body":"in once,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1475.256,"endTime":1477.475,"body":"and Meg had her laptop on her"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1475.256,"endTime":1477.475,"body":"front porch and she was"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1477.475,"endTime":1479.694,"body":"gardening. And I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1479.701,"endTime":1481.0,"body":"logged in another time [Dan"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1479.701,"endTime":1481.0,"body":"chuckles], and Aurelie"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1481.0,"endTime":1484.256,"body":"was making crepes [Bekah"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1481.0,"endTime":1484.256,"body":"chuckles] in"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1484.256,"endTime":1486.235,"body":"her kitchen. It was lovely. So,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1484.256,"endTime":1486.235,"body":"it blew open for me that this"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1486.235,"endTime":1488.214,"body":"was"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1488.215,"endTime":1491.935,"body":"really a- a place where people"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1488.215,"endTime":1491.935,"body":"could connect, which is ... at"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1491.935,"endTime":1497.846,"body":"the heart of this community. But"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1491.935,"endTime":1497.846,"body":"to focus back, you asked about"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1497.846,"endTime":1501.273,"body":"how do I approach ... pairing or"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1497.846,"endTime":1501.273,"body":"working with people from lo- a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1501.273,"endTime":1504.7,"body":"lots of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1504.701,"endTime":1505.84,"body":"different backgrounds and lots"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1504.701,"endTime":1505.84,"body":"of different technology? Well,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1505.84,"endTime":1506.979,"body":"some"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1506.98,"endTime":1508.63,"body":"of it is cuz I've been doing"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1506.98,"endTime":1508.63,"body":"this for a long time, so I've"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1508.63,"endTime":1510.28,"body":"seen a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1510.28,"endTime":1515.861,"body":"bunch of things. I -- some of it"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1510.28,"endTime":1515.861,"body":"is that I'm in a job where I'm"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1515.861,"endTime":1519.875,"body":"actively working in several"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1515.861,"endTime":1519.875,"body":"different languages. And I'm"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1520.655,"endTime":1523.925,"body":"in a job where I'm working to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1520.655,"endTime":1523.925,"body":"support developers. So I -- for"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1523.925,"endTime":1525.44,"body":"five years, that's really been"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1523.925,"endTime":1525.44,"body":"my role. And even, Bekah, the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1525.44,"endTime":1526.955,"body":"other"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1526.955,"endTime":1528.215,"body":"day you were talking about"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1526.955,"endTime":1528.215,"body":"DevRel. And I realized, some of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1528.215,"endTime":1529.475,"body":"what I've"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1529.476,"endTime":1531.47,"body":"been doing falls under that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1529.476,"endTime":1531.47,"body":"bucket of really looking for"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1531.47,"endTime":1533.464,"body":"ways"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1533.465,"endTime":1538.355,"body":"to help people who are having"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1533.465,"endTime":1538.355,"body":"problems. And I find there are"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1538.355,"endTime":1541.13,"body":"some common threads, like a lot"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1538.355,"endTime":1541.13,"body":"of it is ... really slowing down"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1541.13,"endTime":1543.905,"body":"my"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1543.905,"endTime":1548.05,"body":"thought process to take the time"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1543.905,"endTime":1548.05,"body":"to meet somebody in their"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1548.05,"endTime":1551.215,"body":"thought process as best I can."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1548.05,"endTime":1551.215,"body":"To really try to hear ... not"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1551.215,"endTime":1554.38,"body":"what I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1554.381,"endTime":1556.36,"body":"think the problem is, but try to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1554.381,"endTime":1556.36,"body":"hear what someone else thinks"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1556.36,"endTime":1558.339,"body":"the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1558.34,"endTime":1560.395,"body":"problem is, and try to look at"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1558.34,"endTime":1560.395,"body":"it from their point of view, as"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1560.395,"endTime":1562.45,"body":"best"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1562.451,"endTime":1567.101,"body":"I can. And try to look with them"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1562.451,"endTime":1567.101,"body":"at whatever they're looking at."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1567.101,"endTime":1569.441,"body":"So I will often say, \"If you're"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1567.101,"endTime":1569.441,"body":"having trouble, can you share an"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1569.445,"endTime":1572.951,"body":"error message? Or can we share a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1569.445,"endTime":1572.951,"body":"screen and I can look at the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1572.951,"endTime":1575.77,"body":"same thing you are.\" Because"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1572.951,"endTime":1575.77,"body":"words becoming adequate for"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1575.77,"endTime":1578.589,"body":"talking"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1578.59,"endTime":1582.31,"body":"about technical things. English"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1578.59,"endTime":1582.31,"body":"words in particular are so"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1582.31,"endTime":1586.0,"body":"imprecise sometimes. That we can"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1582.31,"endTime":1586.0,"body":"say the same word and mean"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1586.0,"endTime":1589.27,"body":"different things. So I often"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1586.0,"endTime":1589.27,"body":"find it really useful to share"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1589.27,"endTime":1592.54,"body":"... a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1592.546,"endTime":1594.313,"body":"screen, and pair program, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1592.546,"endTime":1594.313,"body":"look at the sa- look at the same"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1594.313,"endTime":1596.08,"body":"thing at"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1596.08,"endTime":1599.155,"body":"the same time, or to share a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1596.08,"endTime":1599.155,"body":"stack trace, or a, you know, the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1599.155,"endTime":1602.23,"body":"--"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1602.23,"endTime":1604.705,"body":"an error message. That's really"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1602.23,"endTime":1604.705,"body":"useful. I think I've drifted"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1604.705,"endTime":1607.18,"body":"from"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1607.361,"endTime":1608.351,"body":"the heart of your question"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1607.361,"endTime":1608.351,"body":"though."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1608.5,"endTime":1610.151,"body":"I mean, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1608.5,"endTime":1610.151,"body":"great. I mean, you're really"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1610.151,"endTime":1612.296,"body":"taking a- a person-centered"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1610.151,"endTime":1612.296,"body":"approach to each person that"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1612.296,"endTime":1614.441,"body":"comes into"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1614.445,"endTime":1618.55,"body":"that room. And the idea of like"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1614.445,"endTime":1618.55,"body":"listening and understanding is"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1618.55,"endTime":1620.575,"body":"something that I- I think a lot"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1618.55,"endTime":1620.575,"body":"of people struggle wh- struggle"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1620.575,"endTime":1622.6,"body":"with."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1622.601,"endTime":1624.026,"body":"Myself included. Because it's"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1622.601,"endTime":1624.026,"body":"like, \"All right, let's just"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1624.026,"endTime":1625.451,"body":"dive"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1625.451,"endTime":1627.895,"body":"into this,\" right? And get going"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1625.451,"endTime":1627.895,"body":"without, like, taking that time"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1627.895,"endTime":1630.339,"body":"to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1630.401,"endTime":1632.8,"body":"understand what's happening with"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1630.401,"endTime":1632.8,"body":"the other person first."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1634.661,"endTime":1640.81,"body":"I really think that's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1634.661,"endTime":1640.81,"body":"important. At some point in"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1640.81,"endTime":1643.997,"body":"my growth and career, I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1640.81,"endTime":1643.997,"body":"discovered the Agile Manifesto,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1643.997,"endTime":1647.184,"body":"and people"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1647.215,"endTime":1650.185,"body":"have -- I've since read lots of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1647.215,"endTime":1650.185,"body":"things, you know, positive and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1650.185,"endTime":1651.865,"body":"not so positive about the Agile"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1650.185,"endTime":1651.865,"body":"Manifesto. And I don't mean to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1651.865,"endTime":1653.545,"body":"go"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1653.546,"endTime":1658.346,"body":"down that rabbit hole, but the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1653.546,"endTime":1658.346,"body":"first value statement really"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1658.351,"endTime":1660.238,"body":"stuck and resonated with me that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1658.351,"endTime":1660.238,"body":"we value people and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1660.238,"endTime":1662.125,"body":"relationships"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1662.125,"endTime":1669.101,"body":"over processes and things. That"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1662.125,"endTime":1669.101,"body":"is kind of a radical idea. If"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1669.101,"endTime":1670.751,"body":"you- if you take that, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1669.101,"endTime":1670.751,"body":"nothing else, that we value"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1670.751,"endTime":1672.401,"body":"people in"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1672.401,"endTime":1676.27,"body":"relationships over attachment to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1672.401,"endTime":1676.27,"body":"any particular way of doing"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1676.27,"endTime":1678.52,"body":"things, and you start there, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1676.27,"endTime":1678.52,"body":"you really look to meet the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1678.52,"endTime":1680.77,"body":"other"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1680.77,"endTime":1683.351,"body":"people that you're working with,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1680.77,"endTime":1683.351,"body":"no matter what their role is, no"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1683.351,"endTime":1686.471,"body":"matter what their background is,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1683.351,"endTime":1686.471,"body":"and realize that we're all part"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1686.471,"endTime":1689.621,"body":"of a group or a team or a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1686.471,"endTime":1689.621,"body":"community that's trying to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1689.621,"endTime":1694.796,"body":"accomplish something together, I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1689.621,"endTime":1694.796,"body":"think all of the other practices"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1694.796,"endTime":1697.031,"body":"around software development and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1694.796,"endTime":1697.031,"body":"delivery can emerge. If you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1697.031,"endTime":1699.266,"body":"start"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1699.266,"endTime":1700.945,"body":"with who's at the table, then"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1699.266,"endTime":1700.945,"body":"you really make space for"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1700.945,"endTime":1702.624,"body":"everybody"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1702.625,"endTime":1705.655,"body":"who's at the table. And that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1702.625,"endTime":1705.655,"body":"could be a hard thing, cuz we're"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1705.655,"endTime":1707.846,"body":"not always used to doing that."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1705.655,"endTime":1707.846,"body":"There is a lot of gatekeepy,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1709.375,"endTime":1713.905,"body":"like language and habits in"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1709.375,"endTime":1713.905,"body":"technology. I try to do my part"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1713.905,"endTime":1715.346,"body":"to break that stuff down."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1716.246,"endTime":1719.336,"body":"Yeah, I think a lot of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1716.246,"endTime":1719.336,"body":"times too -- sometimes it's"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1719.336,"endTime":1722.996,"body":"certainly intentional and other"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1719.336,"endTime":1722.996,"body":"times it's not, it's- it's just"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1723.115,"endTime":1728.066,"body":"habits that have built up"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1723.115,"endTime":1728.066,"body":"personally or through careers or"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1728.066,"endTime":1731.875,"body":"with the teams that you have"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1728.066,"endTime":1731.875,"body":"worked on before. So, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1731.875,"endTime":1737.215,"body":"there's a- a need for constantly"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1731.875,"endTime":1737.215,"body":"evaluating ourselves and how we"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1737.665,"endTime":1740.786,"body":"approach the people that we are"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1737.665,"endTime":1740.786,"body":"talking to or working with."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1745.54,"endTime":1748.0,"body":"I noticed something else,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1745.54,"endTime":1748.0,"body":"too. That ... pairing,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1748.0,"endTime":1751.0,"body":"really well, takes time -- takes"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1748.0,"endTime":1751.0,"body":"me time."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1751.0,"endTime":1751.871,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1751.871,"endTime":1754.0,"body":"I have to really slow"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1751.871,"endTime":1754.0,"body":"down, and let go of any"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1754.0,"endTime":1755.651,"body":"pressure, and really be"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1755.651,"endTime":1759.461,"body":"present with another person. And"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1755.651,"endTime":1759.461,"body":"that takes time, and energy, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1759.461,"endTime":1762.086,"body":"effort. And if I'm under a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1759.461,"endTime":1762.086,"body":"deadline to deliver something,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1762.086,"endTime":1764.711,"body":"it"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1764.711,"endTime":1769.51,"body":"can be challenging to make that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1764.711,"endTime":1769.51,"body":"time and that pressure. But I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1769.51,"endTime":1775.556,"body":"think it is so worth it to ..."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1769.51,"endTime":1775.556,"body":"balance individual contribution,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1775.556,"endTime":1779.756,"body":"and individual delivery, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1775.556,"endTime":1779.756,"body":"individual speed with all of the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1779.756,"endTime":1783.266,"body":"rich benefits you get from"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1779.756,"endTime":1783.266,"body":"building community as you work."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1783.326,"endTime":1785.905,"body":"And from building relationships,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1783.326,"endTime":1785.905,"body":"and sharing knowledge, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1786.205,"endTime":1789.925,"body":"building experience, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1786.205,"endTime":1789.925,"body":"supporting everybody to grow in"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1789.931,"endTime":1795.145,"body":"confidence and skill. There's so"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1789.931,"endTime":1795.145,"body":"many benefits from actually"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1795.145,"endTime":1795.955,"body":"working together."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1797.381,"endTime":1799.961,"body":"Absolutely. And next"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1797.381,"endTime":1799.961,"body":"month, our monthly challenge —"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1799.961,"endTime":1802.571,"body":"this will be in June — is Month"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1799.961,"endTime":1802.571,"body":"of Feedback. And so we read"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1802.571,"endTime":1805.181,"body":"\"Radical"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1805.181,"endTime":1808.03,"body":"Candor\". I -- we've mentioned it"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1805.181,"endTime":1808.03,"body":"so many times. It's been a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1808.03,"endTime":1809.56,"body":"favorite of ours. But when"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1808.03,"endTime":1809.56,"body":"you're working with so many"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1809.56,"endTime":1811.09,"body":"different"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1811.096,"endTime":1815.32,"body":"people, you are providing a lot"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1811.096,"endTime":1815.32,"body":"of feedback and that can be hard"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1815.32,"endTime":1819.701,"body":"sometimes, right? Because that"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1815.32,"endTime":1819.701,"body":"feedback has to be critical. How"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1819.73,"endTime":1822.582,"body":"do you approach, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1819.73,"endTime":1822.582,"body":"giving honest feedback, but"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1822.582,"endTime":1825.434,"body":"still supporting"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1825.675,"endTime":1828.375,"body":"the person that you are"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1825.675,"endTime":1828.375,"body":"providing the feedback to."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1829.855,"endTime":1831.445,"body":"That's a great question."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1829.855,"endTime":1831.445,"body":"I started reading \"Radical"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1831.445,"endTime":1833.035,"body":"Candor\""},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1833.276,"endTime":1835.166,"body":"with someone on my team because"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1833.276,"endTime":1835.166,"body":"you have talked about it so"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1835.166,"endTime":1837.056,"body":"much."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1837.266,"endTime":1847.48,"body":"And it is the ... I struggle a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1837.266,"endTime":1847.48,"body":"bit with the directness of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1847.54,"endTime":1849.385,"body":"critical feedback. That's where"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1847.54,"endTime":1849.385,"body":"I found that book was really"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1849.385,"endTime":1851.23,"body":"useful"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1851.23,"endTime":1854.411,"body":"in giving me some examples of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1851.23,"endTime":1854.411,"body":"how to be direct without being"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1854.871,"endTime":1855.0,"body":"confrontational, right? And-"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1855.0,"endTime":1856.0,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1856.0,"endTime":1858.161,"body":"-to stay heart-centered,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1856.0,"endTime":1858.161,"body":"to stay"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1858.161,"endTime":1861.431,"body":"person-centered, and to really"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1858.161,"endTime":1861.431,"body":"have the other persons to be"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1861.435,"endTime":1864.55,"body":"committed to the other person. I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1861.435,"endTime":1864.55,"body":"find I really practice the idea"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1864.55,"endTime":1867.665,"body":"--"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1867.756,"endTime":1868.94,"body":"well, practice which means I'm"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1867.756,"endTime":1868.94,"body":"not always good at it, but I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1868.94,"endTime":1870.124,"body":"work"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1870.125,"endTime":1873.83,"body":"at it. I practice the idea that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1870.125,"endTime":1873.83,"body":"everybody is where they're at,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1873.83,"endTime":1877.535,"body":"on"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1877.536,"endTime":1880.655,"body":"their own personal journey. And"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1877.536,"endTime":1880.655,"body":"everybody is right where they're"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1880.661,"endTime":1883.283,"body":"supposed to be in the moment."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1880.661,"endTime":1883.283,"body":"And exactly the people that show"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1883.283,"endTime":1885.905,"body":"up"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1885.905,"endTime":1888.786,"body":"are the people who are supposed"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1885.905,"endTime":1888.786,"body":"to be there. And the people who"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1888.786,"endTime":1890.766,"body":"are on your team are the people"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1888.786,"endTime":1890.766,"body":"who are supposed to be there."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1890.766,"endTime":1893.428,"body":"Like, really try to embrace, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1890.766,"endTime":1893.428,"body":"accept, and love what's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1893.428,"endTime":1896.09,"body":"happening."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1896.451,"endTime":1902.931,"body":"I think that's really important."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1896.451,"endTime":1902.931,"body":"To be more practical though,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1903.351,"endTime":1906.425,"body":"I find, still, I'm noticing a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1903.351,"endTime":1906.425,"body":"lot of self-doubt and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1906.425,"endTime":1909.499,"body":"self-criticism"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1909.53,"endTime":1912.921,"body":"that happens in technology. And"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1909.53,"endTime":1912.921,"body":"so one of the things that I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1912.921,"endTime":1914.975,"body":"really try to do when I'm"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1912.921,"endTime":1914.975,"body":"pairing is be encouraging. Above"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1914.975,"endTime":1917.029,"body":"all else,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1917.03,"endTime":1919.227,"body":"to be supportive and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1917.03,"endTime":1919.227,"body":"encouraging. Because the biggest"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1919.227,"endTime":1921.424,"body":"thing that I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1921.425,"endTime":1923.855,"body":"believe will help people learn"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1921.425,"endTime":1923.855,"body":"is to grow that confidence. That"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1923.855,"endTime":1926.496,"body":"it's okay to make a mistake."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1923.855,"endTime":1926.496,"body":"It's okay not to know something."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1926.915,"endTime":1929.615,"body":"That's actually part of the job."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1926.915,"endTime":1929.615,"body":"And the faster that you are"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1929.615,"endTime":1933.726,"body":"honest and open about what you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1929.615,"endTime":1933.726,"body":"don't know as well as what you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1933.726,"endTime":1935.481,"body":"know, then the faster that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1933.726,"endTime":1935.481,"body":"everybody can see how to help"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1935.481,"endTime":1937.236,"body":"you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1937.236,"endTime":1939.636,"body":"and the faster you can learn."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1937.236,"endTime":1939.636,"body":"And so I really just try to --"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1939.636,"endTime":1942.036,"body":"always"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1942.036,"endTime":1944.136,"body":"try to be supportive, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1942.036,"endTime":1944.136,"body":"patient, and guide people"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1944.136,"endTime":1946.236,"body":"towards what"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1946.236,"endTime":1948.576,"body":"seems to be the next step so"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1946.236,"endTime":1948.576,"body":"that they can build their"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1948.576,"endTime":1951.365,"body":"understanding, and get stronger,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1948.576,"endTime":1951.365,"body":"and bigger. Because that kind of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1951.365,"endTime":1953.465,"body":"pairing, and feedback, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1951.365,"endTime":1953.465,"body":"support, it's not about me ..."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1953.465,"endTime":1955.565,"body":"in that moment."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1955.566,"endTime":1957.59,"body":"It's really about trying to work"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1955.566,"endTime":1957.59,"body":"with somebody and support them"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1957.59,"endTime":1959.614,"body":"to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1959.615,"endTime":1963.215,"body":"take whatever the next step is"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1959.615,"endTime":1963.215,"body":"for them. And if I'm deciding"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1963.215,"endTime":1969.185,"body":"what it is, then ... that's not"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1963.215,"endTime":1969.185,"body":"right. What I do sometimes"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1969.185,"endTime":1972.965,"body":"though, is I might point people"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1969.185,"endTime":1972.965,"body":"in a direction. Based on the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1972.965,"endTime":1974.458,"body":"journey that I've walked, I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1972.965,"endTime":1974.458,"body":"might say, \"You know, have you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1974.458,"endTime":1975.951,"body":"thought"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1975.951,"endTime":1978.0,"body":"about this?\" or \"Let's go look"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1975.951,"endTime":1978.0,"body":"at that,\" or \"I'd like --\""},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1978.0,"endTime":1979.371,"body":"yeah. I do more"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1979.371,"endTime":1980.93,"body":"direct coaching sometimes with"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1979.371,"endTime":1980.93,"body":"people on my team at work where"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1980.93,"endTime":1982.489,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1982.49,"endTime":1984.395,"body":"say, \"I'd like you to learn"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1982.49,"endTime":1984.395,"body":"this,\" or \"I'd like you to learn"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1984.395,"endTime":1986.3,"body":"that.\""},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1986.961,"endTime":1989.316,"body":"You know, in that context, I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1986.961,"endTime":1989.316,"body":"feel like there's a framework,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1989.316,"endTime":1991.671,"body":"and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1991.675,"endTime":1993.651,"body":"it's part of my role and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1991.675,"endTime":1993.651,"body":"responsibility to be more"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1993.651,"endTime":1998.211,"body":"directive. But I still try to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1993.651,"endTime":1998.211,"body":"partner with people, always to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1998.211,"endTime":2002.111,"body":"say, \"There's what you want to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":1998.211,"endTime":2002.111,"body":"learn and what you're interested"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2002.111,"endTime":2005.171,"body":"in, and there's what I see as an"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2002.111,"endTime":2005.171,"body":"opportunity for you, and let's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2005.171,"endTime":2010.03,"body":"bring those together and make"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2005.171,"endTime":2010.03,"body":"out a plan.\" It's in --"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2010.121,"endTime":2010.48,"body":"Yeah, I love that."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2011.111,"endTime":2011.23,"body":"Yeah?"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2012.221,"endTime":2013.346,"body":"But -- I was just gonna"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2012.221,"endTime":2013.346,"body":"say, acknowledging the person"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2013.346,"endTime":2014.471,"body":"where"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2014.471,"endTime":2017.711,"body":"they're at on the journey is a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2014.471,"endTime":2017.711,"body":"huge part of that. And- and what"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2017.711,"endTime":2022.121,"body":"your relationship is with that"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2017.711,"endTime":2022.121,"body":"person. Because, for sure, we"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2022.121,"endTime":2025.57,"body":"communicate differently with"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2022.121,"endTime":2025.57,"body":"people we've been working with"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2025.57,"endTime":2029.441,"body":"for a while or somebody who's"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2025.57,"endTime":2029.441,"body":"new on the team or someone we're"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2029.441,"endTime":2033.25,"body":"meeting for the first time. You"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2029.441,"endTime":2033.25,"body":"know, all of these things play a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2033.25,"endTime":2036.971,"body":"role into, I think, how we"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2033.25,"endTime":2036.971,"body":"provide feedback and what the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2036.971,"endTime":2040.375,"body":"expectations are ... of us, you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2036.971,"endTime":2040.375,"body":"know? If I ... am resop-"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2040.375,"endTime":2043.779,"body":"responding to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2043.786,"endTime":2047.141,"body":"a student's paper, there's an"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2043.786,"endTime":2047.141,"body":"expectation of how I'll respond"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2047.141,"endTime":2048.611,"body":"to that paper, versus if"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2047.141,"endTime":2048.611,"body":"somebody says, \"Hey, can you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2048.611,"endTime":2050.081,"body":"give me"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2050.081,"endTime":2053.561,"body":"feedback on my blog post?\" it's"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2050.081,"endTime":2053.561,"body":"going to be a little bit"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2053.561,"endTime":2055.061,"body":"different. I'm going to provide"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2053.561,"endTime":2055.061,"body":"feedback either way, but the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2055.061,"endTime":2056.561,"body":"tone"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2056.561,"endTime":2058.03,"body":"is going to change, for sure."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2059.416,"endTime":2062.445,"body":"But through it all, that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2059.416,"endTime":2062.445,"body":"concept of people and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2062.445,"endTime":2064.333,"body":"relationships first is really"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2062.445,"endTime":2064.333,"body":"important. Like -- and that's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2064.333,"endTime":2066.221,"body":"what"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2066.221,"endTime":2068.276,"body":"I have enjoyed about, the part"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2066.221,"endTime":2068.276,"body":"of \"Radical Candor\" that I've"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2068.276,"endTime":2070.331,"body":"managed"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2070.331,"endTime":2073.721,"body":"to read so far, is that it does"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2070.331,"endTime":2073.721,"body":"start with that people-centered"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2073.721,"endTime":2080.26,"body":"approach. And that ... valuing"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2073.721,"endTime":2080.26,"body":"the person that you're giving"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2080.26,"endTime":2083.71,"body":"feedback to you and valuing the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2080.26,"endTime":2083.71,"body":"relationship for what it is, not"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2083.71,"endTime":2085.225,"body":"needing to make it something"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2083.71,"endTime":2085.225,"body":"that it isn't, in whatever"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2085.225,"endTime":2086.74,"body":"context, but"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2086.74,"endTime":2091.331,"body":"valuing it for what it is. And"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2086.74,"endTime":2091.331,"body":"valuing that the other person"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2092.3,"endTime":2093.735,"body":"involved is a human on a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2092.3,"endTime":2093.735,"body":"journey, just like you're a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2093.735,"endTime":2095.17,"body":"human on a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2095.17,"endTime":2097.48,"body":"journey. And, you know, there"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2095.17,"endTime":2097.48,"body":"was a time when I didn't know"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2097.48,"endTime":2099.79,"body":"what I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2099.791,"endTime":2102.581,"body":"was doing and people were"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2099.791,"endTime":2102.581,"body":"gracious with me. So I tried"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2102.581,"endTime":2106.391,"body":"to return that favor. Pay it"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2102.581,"endTime":2106.391,"body":"forward, in that sense."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2107.561,"endTime":2110.125,"body":"Yeah. And I- I'd say"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2107.561,"endTime":2110.125,"body":"another- another ... another"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2110.125,"endTime":2112.689,"body":"piece of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2112.69,"endTime":2116.501,"body":"this is, you know, when you talk"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2112.69,"endTime":2116.501,"body":"about meeting people where"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2116.501,"endTime":2118.21,"body":"they are and things like that,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2116.501,"endTime":2118.21,"body":"it helps when you know them"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2118.21,"endTime":2119.919,"body":"[chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2120.431,"endTime":2124.3,"body":"already, right? I-it's easier to"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2120.431,"endTime":2124.3,"body":"have connections when you ..."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2126.13,"endTime":2128.0,"body":"well, I was gonna say when you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2126.13,"endTime":2128.0,"body":"are connected, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2128.0,"endTime":2129.101,"body":"[Dan and Bekah chuckle] I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2129.106,"endTime":2130.078,"body":"dunno. That sentence kind of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2129.106,"endTime":2130.078,"body":"broke down in the middle there."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2130.078,"endTime":2131.05,"body":"But ..."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2131.05,"endTime":2134.681,"body":"I was thinking about two things"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2131.05,"endTime":2134.681,"body":"when- when- when you were"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2134.681,"endTime":2137.0,"body":"talking. Fun thing, Bek- Bekah"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2134.681,"endTime":2137.0,"body":"and I worked to-together --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2137.0,"endTime":2139.016,"body":"and I don't even know why I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2139.016,"endTime":2141.056,"body":"brought this up, but [chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2139.016,"endTime":2141.056,"body":"Bekah and I worked together. And"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2141.056,"endTime":2143.096,"body":"it took"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2143.096,"endTime":2144.326,"body":"us -- I dunno. How long do you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2143.096,"endTime":2144.326,"body":"think it took us before -- I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2144.326,"endTime":2145.556,"body":"mean,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2145.556,"endTime":2147.686,"body":"at least a year or something"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2145.556,"endTime":2147.686,"body":"before we were really like --"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2148.181,"endTime":2150.0,"body":"I feel like right before"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2148.181,"endTime":2150.0,"body":"the pandemic hit-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2149.0,"endTime":2150.0,"body":"[Chuckles] Oh, yeah. Right."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2149.0,"endTime":2150.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2150.0,"endTime":2152.0,"body":"-we were, like, eight"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2150.0,"endTime":2152.0,"body":"months in, and we, like, we"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2152.0,"endTime":2153.94,"body":"finally hit that stride. And"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2153.94,"endTime":2156.0,"body":"then- and then [chuckles] ..."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2153.94,"endTime":2156.0,"body":"and kinda messed up."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2155.666,"endTime":2158.283,"body":"Yeah. And- and some of- and"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2155.666,"endTime":2158.283,"body":"some of that is, like ... some"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2158.283,"endTime":2160.9,"body":"of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2160.9,"endTime":2163.195,"body":"it is me -- you know, so Bekah"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2160.9,"endTime":2163.195,"body":"had just started in- in, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2163.195,"endTime":2165.49,"body":"in dev and"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2165.49,"endTime":2168.101,"body":"had just kind of gotten outta"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2165.49,"endTime":2168.101,"body":"bootcamp and stuff. And so some"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2168.101,"endTime":2170.621,"body":"of it was me, like, learning how"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2168.101,"endTime":2170.621,"body":"to do that better, you know?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2170.681,"endTime":2173.681,"body":"Learning to do all the stuff"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2170.681,"endTime":2173.681,"body":"that David's just talking about."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2174.07,"endTime":2178.181,"body":"And some of it I think is- is"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2174.07,"endTime":2178.181,"body":"just that connection over time,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2178.181,"endTime":2181.21,"body":"you know, kind of just grows,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2178.181,"endTime":2181.21,"body":"and grows stronger. And that's"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2181.21,"endTime":2183.235,"body":"another thing I appreciate about"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2181.21,"endTime":2183.235,"body":"Virtual Coffee. And- and I- I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2183.235,"endTime":2185.26,"body":"think"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2185.26,"endTime":2188.59,"body":"it helps is, when you know"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2185.26,"endTime":2188.59,"body":"people, you know, it's- it's-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2188.621,"endTime":2191.95,"body":"it's a little bit ... easier to"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2188.621,"endTime":2191.95,"body":"do this [chuckles], I guess. And"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2191.95,"endTime":2195.279,"body":"to get"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2195.28,"endTime":2196.54,"body":"practice at it when you know a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2195.28,"endTime":2196.54,"body":"person. And so- so you don't"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2196.54,"endTime":2197.8,"body":"have"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2197.8,"endTime":2199.78,"body":"to, maybe, necessarily -- like,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2197.8,"endTime":2199.78,"body":"I- I -- when I pair with"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2199.78,"endTime":2201.76,"body":"somebody, I've"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2201.76,"endTime":2202.96,"body":"paired with people, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2201.76,"endTime":2202.96,"body":"kind of cold, right? So, people"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2202.96,"endTime":2204.16,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2204.161,"endTime":2206.53,"body":"don't know, and for the first"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2204.161,"endTime":2206.53,"body":"time, and there's always a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2206.53,"endTime":2209.681,"body":"bit of like level setting, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2206.53,"endTime":2209.681,"body":"know? And I- and I- I try to be"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2209.681,"endTime":2211.016,"body":"very -- I mean, I- I wanna be"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2209.681,"endTime":2211.016,"body":"very careful about it. And I,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2211.016,"endTime":2212.351,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2212.356,"endTime":2214.933,"body":"it's ... like, you- you don't"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2212.356,"endTime":2214.933,"body":"wanna assume that they -- that a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2214.933,"endTime":2217.51,"body":"person knows"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2217.661,"endTime":2218.651,"body":"things that they don't know, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2217.661,"endTime":2218.651,"body":"don't wanna assume that they"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2218.651,"endTime":2219.641,"body":"don't"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2219.641,"endTime":2221.365,"body":"know anything either, right? And"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2219.641,"endTime":2221.365,"body":"so, it's that, like -- it's that"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2221.365,"endTime":2223.089,"body":"--"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2223.96,"endTime":2225.0,"body":"I- I just -- I called it level"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2223.96,"endTime":2225.0,"body":"setting cuz I'm like -- a-and"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2225.0,"endTime":2226.931,"body":"I've -- now I've just"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2226.936,"endTime":2228.988,"body":"started explicit do-doing it."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2226.936,"endTime":2228.988,"body":"Like, I- I- I wanna be very like"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2228.988,"endTime":2231.04,"body":"clear"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2231.34,"endTime":2233.471,"body":"that I'm, you know, I- I just"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2231.34,"endTime":2233.471,"body":"wanna figure out where we are,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2233.476,"endTime":2235.033,"body":"you know, where you are, where-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2233.476,"endTime":2235.033,"body":"where, like, what level I can"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2235.033,"endTime":2236.59,"body":"talk"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2236.59,"endTime":2238.09,"body":"at, you know? And it's --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2236.59,"endTime":2238.09,"body":"there's no judgment at, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2238.09,"endTime":2239.59,"body":"know?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2239.621,"endTime":2242.155,"body":"It's just what -- it's just"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2239.621,"endTime":2242.155,"body":"somebody who's just learning for"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2242.155,"endTime":2244.689,"body":"the first"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2244.69,"endTime":2246.641,"body":"time is gonna have different"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2244.69,"endTime":2246.641,"body":"questions and different thought"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2246.641,"endTime":2248.786,"body":"processes than somebody who"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2246.641,"endTime":2248.786,"body":"maybe is a Ruby expert, but is"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2248.786,"endTime":2250.931,"body":"just"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2250.931,"endTime":2251.966,"body":"starting a JavaScript. That"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2250.931,"endTime":2251.966,"body":"person is going to have"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2251.966,"endTime":2253.001,"body":"completely"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2253.001,"endTime":2257.17,"body":"different questions, you know?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2253.001,"endTime":2257.17,"body":"You know, and- and so, it's"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2257.17,"endTime":2260.32,"body":"always ... I don't know. It's"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2257.17,"endTime":2260.32,"body":"always kind of interesting to --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2261.4,"endTime":2263.621,"body":"when you're connecting with"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2261.4,"endTime":2263.621,"body":"different people. So when you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2263.621,"endTime":2265.046,"body":"have a -- when you're at work"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2263.621,"endTime":2265.046,"body":"and you're in a team, kind of,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2265.046,"endTime":2266.471,"body":"you build"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2266.471,"endTime":2269.703,"body":"a rapport over- over time,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2266.471,"endTime":2269.703,"body":"right? And when you are in a lot"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2269.703,"endTime":2272.935,"body":"of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2272.936,"endTime":2274.555,"body":"random internet communities, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2272.936,"endTime":2274.555,"body":"can still be valuable and you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2274.555,"endTime":2276.174,"body":"can"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2276.175,"endTime":2278.335,"body":"still have valuable connections"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2276.175,"endTime":2278.335,"body":"with people you don't know."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2278.755,"endTime":2279.295,"body":"For sure. But --"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2279.67,"endTime":2283.09,"body":"Well, this overlaps, I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2279.67,"endTime":2283.09,"body":"think, with- with you were"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2283.09,"endTime":2286.885,"body":"talking about, Bekah, in that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2283.09,"endTime":2286.885,"body":"DevRel session you gave the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2286.885,"endTime":2289.315,"body":"other day, too. That there's a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2286.885,"endTime":2289.315,"body":"part of community building and a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2289.315,"endTime":2292.765,"body":"part of developer relations that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2289.315,"endTime":2292.765,"body":"is ... going out and reaching"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2292.765,"endTime":2296.215,"body":"out to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2296.215,"endTime":2299.065,"body":"people that are not yet a part"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2296.215,"endTime":2299.065,"body":"of the community. And trying to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2299.096,"endTime":2304.465,"body":"create an opening ... connection"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2299.096,"endTime":2304.465,"body":"with somebody that you don't"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2304.465,"endTime":2308.876,"body":"know. Dan, as you were talking,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2304.465,"endTime":2308.876,"body":"I'm reminded that one of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2308.876,"endTime":2312.295,"body":"the things that constantly"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2308.876,"endTime":2312.295,"body":"surprises me still, years later,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2312.565,"endTime":2314.305,"body":"when I -- about software"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2312.565,"endTime":2314.305,"body":"development, is how long it"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2314.305,"endTime":2316.045,"body":"takes to get"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2316.045,"endTime":2318.37,"body":"started with new people."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2316.045,"endTime":2318.37,"body":"Especially with new people. When"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2318.37,"endTime":2320.695,"body":"I-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2320.695,"endTime":2320.695,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2320.695,"endTime":2322.57,"body":"-sit down to pair with a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2320.695,"endTime":2322.57,"body":"new person, say, a new person"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2322.57,"endTime":2324.445,"body":"joins my"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2324.445,"endTime":2326.965,"body":"team, or I'm in the co-working"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2324.445,"endTime":2326.965,"body":"room for the first time with"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2326.965,"endTime":2329.987,"body":"somebody new, it's not"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2326.965,"endTime":2329.987,"body":"unreasonable to take one to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2329.987,"endTime":2333.009,"body":"three"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2333.01,"endTime":2338.53,"body":"hours to just set out your"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2333.01,"endTime":2338.53,"body":"machines to work in this -- a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2338.536,"endTime":2342.971,"body":"compatible way, and set up your"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2338.536,"endTime":2342.971,"body":"language like you were talking"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2342.971,"endTime":2345.911,"body":"about, to figure out what level"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2342.971,"endTime":2345.911,"body":"of detail and abstraction to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2345.911,"endTime":2348.851,"body":"speak at."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2348.851,"endTime":2349.675,"body":"Right, right."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2349.675,"endTime":2351.67,"body":"And hear each other, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2349.675,"endTime":2351.67,"body":"to develop a common"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2351.67,"endTime":2353.665,"body":"understanding of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2353.666,"endTime":2355.571,"body":"the problem, and to work through"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2353.666,"endTime":2355.571,"body":"build and compile issues in a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2355.571,"endTime":2357.476,"body":"new"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2357.481,"endTime":2359.743,"body":"environment. Like, all these"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2357.481,"endTime":2359.743,"body":"things that are not typing, that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2359.743,"endTime":2362.005,"body":"are not-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2362.005,"endTime":2364.0,"body":"[Chuckles] Yes. Yes."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2362.005,"endTime":2364.03,"body":"-reading and writing"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2362.005,"endTime":2364.03,"body":"code, become really, really"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2364.03,"endTime":2366.055,"body":"important"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2366.356,"endTime":2371.155,"body":"and take real time when you care"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2366.356,"endTime":2371.155,"body":"about the relationships of the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2371.155,"endTime":2374.905,"body":"people you're working with. And"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2371.155,"endTime":2374.905,"body":"I'm constantly surprised by, you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2374.905,"endTime":2380.936,"body":"know, how little I get da- how"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2374.905,"endTime":2380.936,"body":"little progress we make in the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2380.936,"endTime":2385.585,"body":"code when I sit down to pair"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2380.936,"endTime":2385.585,"body":"with people at work, say, for"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2385.585,"endTime":2386.0,"body":"the first time."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2387.0,"endTime":2388.0,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2387.0,"endTime":2390.835,"body":"And how much time it"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2387.0,"endTime":2390.835,"body":"takes to build that initial"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2390.835,"endTime":2393.925,"body":"rapport, and common ground, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2390.835,"endTime":2393.925,"body":"common language, and common"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2393.925,"endTime":2395.605,"body":"environment. And the reason I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2393.925,"endTime":2395.605,"body":"keep talking about it here is"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2395.605,"endTime":2397.285,"body":"cuz"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2397.315,"endTime":2398.77,"body":"I really want to normalize it"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2397.315,"endTime":2398.77,"body":"for anybody who's listening. If"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2398.77,"endTime":2400.225,"body":"you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2400.231,"endTime":2402.118,"body":"try pair programming, and you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2400.231,"endTime":2402.118,"body":"sit down with another human,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2402.118,"endTime":2404.005,"body":"expect"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2404.005,"endTime":2406.826,"body":"it, to be awkward, at first."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2407.621,"endTime":2407.951,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2408.326,"endTime":2409.526,"body":"I-it will be. And that's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2408.326,"endTime":2409.526,"body":"okay. That doesn't mean you're"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2409.526,"endTime":2410.726,"body":"doing it"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2410.726,"endTime":2412.0,"body":"wrong. And that doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2410.726,"endTime":2412.0,"body":"you're failing. It -- that's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2412.0,"endTime":2413.274,"body":"part --"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2413.306,"endTime":2416.666,"body":"that means it's working. That's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2413.306,"endTime":2416.666,"body":"part of figuring out how to work"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2416.666,"endTime":2419.936,"body":"together with another human. And"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2416.666,"endTime":2419.936,"body":"it does -- it's like any other"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2419.936,"endTime":2424.195,"body":"muscle or skill. It does get"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2419.936,"endTime":2424.195,"body":"easier over time. Dan, you spoke"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2424.201,"endTime":2427.525,"body":"about, you know, you- you're"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2424.201,"endTime":2427.525,"body":"working to get better at how to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2427.525,"endTime":2431.545,"body":"ask those questions more"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2427.525,"endTime":2431.545,"body":"directly. How to figure out and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2431.545,"endTime":2433.72,"body":"navigate that awkwardness"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2431.545,"endTime":2433.72,"body":"faster. I- I ha- I feel like I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2433.72,"endTime":2435.895,"body":"can navigate"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2435.896,"endTime":2436.766,"body":"it faster now than --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2436.856,"endTime":2438.0,"body":"Yes, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2438.0,"endTime":2438.0,"body":"I think --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2438.0,"endTime":2439.766,"body":"Yeah. You're saying?"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2439.766,"endTime":2443.396,"body":"You know, coming from the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2439.766,"endTime":2443.396,"body":"other perspective. Like, it's-"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2443.425,"endTime":2447.235,"body":"it's a two way conversation,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2443.425,"endTime":2447.235,"body":"right? And so, when you're first"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2447.24,"endTime":2450.686,"body":"starting out, it can be really"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2447.24,"endTime":2450.686,"body":"hard to ask those questions. And"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2450.686,"endTime":2451.916,"body":"if there's anything, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2450.686,"endTime":2451.916,"body":"I've learned over the last"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2451.916,"endTime":2453.146,"body":"couple"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2453.146,"endTime":2456.715,"body":"of years, it's ask those"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2453.146,"endTime":2456.715,"body":"questions, whether or not you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2456.715,"endTime":2461.635,"body":"think it's gonna make you sound"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2456.715,"endTime":2461.635,"body":"ridiculous or incapable. You're"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2461.635,"endTime":2466.226,"body":"going to learn and grow faster"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2461.635,"endTime":2466.226,"body":"that way. And so, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2466.556,"endTime":2470.755,"body":"having those conversations and"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2466.556,"endTime":2470.755,"body":"being open about where you are"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2470.755,"endTime":2475.195,"body":"too, if you're on the other side"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2470.755,"endTime":2475.195,"body":"of that- that pairing screen is"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2475.286,"endTime":2479.936,"body":"essential. Do you have any tips"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2475.286,"endTime":2479.936,"body":"for people who are on that side"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2479.965,"endTime":2481.705,"body":"of the screen? So opposite of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2479.965,"endTime":2481.705,"body":"you, David, about, like, how-"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2481.705,"endTime":2483.445,"body":"how do you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2483.445,"endTime":2487.496,"body":"ask those questions or what can"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2483.445,"endTime":2487.496,"body":"help make this a successful"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2487.496,"endTime":2491.005,"body":"session by having these -- this"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2487.496,"endTime":2491.005,"body":"conversation?"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2492.601,"endTime":2493.92,"body":"Well, I like everything"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2492.601,"endTime":2493.92,"body":"you just said, Bekah. All of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2493.92,"endTime":2495.239,"body":"that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2495.24,"endTime":2499.9,"body":"is really important. Asking"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2495.24,"endTime":2499.9,"body":"questions. The faster you ask a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2499.9,"endTime":2502.9,"body":"question, the faster you'll find"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2499.9,"endTime":2502.9,"body":"out if the person that you're"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2503.13,"endTime":2507.251,"body":"pairing with i-is, you know, how"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2503.13,"endTime":2507.251,"body":"they're gonna react to you? And"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2507.251,"endTime":2509.471,"body":"the faster you'll find out if"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2507.251,"endTime":2509.471,"body":"that's gonna work for you, and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2509.471,"endTime":2512.38,"body":"it's gonna be a pairing session"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2509.471,"endTime":2512.38,"body":"that you wanna stick with. Or if"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2512.38,"endTime":2514.541,"body":"the person's not gonna treat you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2512.38,"endTime":2514.541,"body":"well, not in a place where they"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2514.541,"endTime":2515.95,"body":"have the skills to treat you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2514.541,"endTime":2515.95,"body":"well, and- and you can get out"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2515.95,"endTime":2517.359,"body":"of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2517.36,"endTime":2519.1,"body":"there, right? The faster -- it's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2517.36,"endTime":2519.1,"body":"all about feedback and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2519.1,"endTime":2520.84,"body":"shortening"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2520.846,"endTime":2522.343,"body":"feedback loops. So that's one"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2520.846,"endTime":2522.343,"body":"part of it. It's the faster you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2522.343,"endTime":2523.84,"body":"can"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2523.84,"endTime":2525.31,"body":"ask questions, the faster you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2523.84,"endTime":2525.31,"body":"can say what you know, the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2525.31,"endTime":2526.78,"body":"faster"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2526.78,"endTime":2528.265,"body":"you can say what you don't know"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2526.78,"endTime":2528.265,"body":"without, you know, with as"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2528.265,"endTime":2529.75,"body":"little"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2529.751,"endTime":2531.618,"body":"emotion or ... I mean, we're all"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2529.751,"endTime":2531.618,"body":"emotional people. I don't mean"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2531.618,"endTime":2533.485,"body":"to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2533.485,"endTime":2537.175,"body":"say you have to be abstract. But"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2533.485,"endTime":2537.175,"body":"there's that thing that we do"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2537.175,"endTime":2540.0,"body":"sometimes ... I've done it when"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2537.175,"endTime":2540.0,"body":"I was learning Indonesian."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2540.0,"endTime":2542.215,"body":"I did it. When I was"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2542.215,"endTime":2546.476,"body":"almost embarrassed to share what"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2542.215,"endTime":2546.476,"body":"I knew, embarrassed to try to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2546.476,"endTime":2549.775,"body":"speak in a new language. And I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2546.476,"endTime":2549.775,"body":"think it's very similar with"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2549.775,"endTime":2552.326,"body":"technology. If you're not"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2549.775,"endTime":2552.326,"body":"familiar with language or"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2552.326,"endTime":2557.456,"body":"concepts, it can feel"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2552.326,"endTime":2557.456,"body":"embarrassing to try. But please"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2557.456,"endTime":2561.235,"body":"do. The faster you try, and the-"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2557.456,"endTime":2561.235,"body":"the faster you take risks, the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2561.235,"endTime":2564.085,"body":"faster you'll find out who will"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2561.235,"endTime":2564.085,"body":"support you in those risks. And-"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2564.235,"endTime":2566.096,"body":"and how fast you can grow."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2566.936,"endTime":2567.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2567.0,"endTime":2567.0,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2567.0,"endTime":2570.146,"body":"And I just wanted to add,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2567.0,"endTime":2570.146,"body":"that- that advice applies not"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2570.146,"endTime":2573.235,"body":"just to beginners too. It's --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2570.146,"endTime":2573.235,"body":"it can be embarrassing for me."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2573.235,"endTime":2575.576,"body":"I mean, I can feel that"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2573.235,"endTime":2575.576,"body":"embarrassment, you know, trying"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2575.581,"endTime":2579.626,"body":"new things, and- and- and some"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2575.581,"endTime":2579.626,"body":"hesitancy, and things like"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2579.626,"endTime":2581.0,"body":"that [chuckles]. So, it's great"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2579.626,"endTime":2581.0,"body":"advice. I just did --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2581.0,"endTime":2582.865,"body":"and it applies to everybody,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2582.865,"endTime":2584.755,"body":"and we all go through it. You"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2582.865,"endTime":2584.755,"body":"know what I mean? So --"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2585.146,"endTime":2586.226,"body":"And we go -- that's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2585.146,"endTime":2586.226,"body":"important that you bring up,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2586.226,"endTime":2587.306,"body":"Dan."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2587.306,"endTime":2588.625,"body":"Cuz we go through it, not just"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2587.306,"endTime":2588.625,"body":"once. It's not just something"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2588.625,"endTime":2589.944,"body":"you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2590.045,"endTime":2590.5,"body":"go through-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2590.5,"endTime":2591.0,"body":"Right, right."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2591.0,"endTime":2594.46,"body":"-as you're entering your"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2591.0,"endTime":2594.46,"body":"technology career. And"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2594.46,"endTime":2597.88,"body":"that's why it's so important to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2594.46,"endTime":2597.88,"body":"get practiced at it. Because you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2597.88,"endTime":2601.78,"body":"will experience that throughout"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2597.88,"endTime":2601.78,"body":"your career. Cuz we're always"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2601.78,"endTime":2604.84,"body":"learning, and technologies are"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2601.78,"endTime":2604.84,"body":"always frame- changing. New"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2604.84,"endTime":2608.311,"body":"frameworks, new libraries. You"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2604.84,"endTime":2608.311,"body":"mentioned earlier, a JavaScript"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2608.74,"endTime":2614.38,"body":"or a Java developer who was"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2608.74,"endTime":2614.38,"body":"learning Ruby, I think? And ..."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2615.085,"endTime":2618.175,"body":"when I first started learning Go"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2615.085,"endTime":2618.175,"body":"-- I've programmed C# for years,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2618.175,"endTime":2619.465,"body":"when I first started learning"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2618.175,"endTime":2619.465,"body":"Go, I bang my head against"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2619.465,"endTime":2620.755,"body":"things. It felt"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2620.755,"endTime":2625.976,"body":"awkward, didn't know how to ask"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2620.755,"endTime":2625.976,"body":"questions. I have been known"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2625.976,"endTime":2628.676,"body":"to rant about TypeScript [Bekah"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2625.976,"endTime":2628.676,"body":"chuckles] and Webpack in Virtual"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2628.676,"endTime":2631.376,"body":"Coffee"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2631.376,"endTime":2637.916,"body":"threads. And I kind of laugh as"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2631.376,"endTime":2637.916,"body":"I do that, because that's me,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2637.916,"endTime":2642.925,"body":"where I could- I could write C#,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2637.916,"endTime":2642.925,"body":"cold, probably in -- from"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2642.925,"endTime":2644.38,"body":"memory, from just having --"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2642.925,"endTime":2644.38,"body":"like, I know the syntax so well,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2644.38,"endTime":2645.835,"body":"cuz I've"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2645.835,"endTime":2648.266,"body":"done it so long. And I can't,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2645.835,"endTime":2648.266,"body":"for the life of me, figure out"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2648.416,"endTime":2649.766,"body":"Webpack. Or --"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2651.311,"endTime":2653.351,"body":"and I struggle with TypeScript"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2651.311,"endTime":2653.351,"body":"bindings. And I was"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2653.351,"endTime":2654.791,"body":"working with JavaScript back"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2653.351,"endTime":2654.791,"body":"before it was popular. So, you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2654.791,"endTime":2656.231,"body":"--"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2656.621,"endTime":2659.095,"body":"Nobody understands Webpack,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2656.621,"endTime":2659.095,"body":"David. [David and Dan laugh]"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2659.095,"endTime":2661.569,"body":"It's okay."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2661.57,"endTime":2663.325,"body":"It's good to have"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2661.57,"endTime":2663.325,"body":"community in that [Bekah"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2663.325,"endTime":2665.08,"body":"chuckles]. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2665.085,"endTime":2666.732,"body":"every- every time you go to --"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2665.085,"endTime":2666.732,"body":"every time I've gone to a new"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2666.732,"endTime":2668.379,"body":"project"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2668.411,"endTime":2671.351,"body":"or gone to a new company or"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2668.411,"endTime":2671.351,"body":"changed jobs, there's that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2671.351,"endTime":2672.67,"body":"learning curve again. Every time"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2671.351,"endTime":2672.67,"body":"I pair with somebody new,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2672.67,"endTime":2673.989,"body":"there's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2673.99,"endTime":2676.878,"body":"that learning curve. I was just"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2673.99,"endTime":2676.878,"body":"banging my head this past"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2676.878,"endTime":2679.766,"body":"weekend"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2679.766,"endTime":2683.635,"body":"against one of the old advent of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2679.766,"endTime":2683.635,"body":"code problems and feeling like I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2683.635,"endTime":2685.795,"body":"don't know what I'm doing, you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2683.635,"endTime":2685.795,"body":"know? And I've been doing this a"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2685.8,"endTime":2688.826,"body":"long time. So by getting"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2685.8,"endTime":2688.826,"body":"comfortable with that feeling"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2688.826,"endTime":2689.335,"body":"is really valuable."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2689.695,"endTime":2689.905,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2690.356,"endTime":2692.036,"body":"It's good- good work to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2690.356,"endTime":2692.036,"body":"practice."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2693.385,"endTime":2695.726,"body":"Agreed. Yeah. I'm- I'm"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2693.385,"endTime":2695.726,"body":"digging into TypeScript for"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2695.726,"endTime":2697.105,"body":"really the first time over the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2695.726,"endTime":2697.105,"body":"last month or two, too. So we"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2697.105,"endTime":2698.484,"body":"have --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2698.815,"endTime":2700.435,"body":"TypeScript Tuesdays is my little"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2698.815,"endTime":2700.435,"body":"plug. [Laughs] Every Tuesday at"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2700.435,"endTime":2702.055,"body":"Two"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2702.056,"endTime":2705.925,"body":"PM Eastern with Kirk, who is --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2702.056,"endTime":2705.925,"body":"who's like a, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2705.925,"endTime":2709.525,"body":"know, he's- he's done a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2705.925,"endTime":2709.525,"body":"-- he- he is a fan of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2709.525,"endTime":2713.981,"body":"strongly type things. And I have"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2709.525,"endTime":2713.981,"body":"been ... long time not fan of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2713.981,"endTime":2716.0,"body":"that, so [laughs] ... but some"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2713.981,"endTime":2716.0,"body":"of it- some of it is"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2716.0,"endTime":2717.94,"body":"avoiding it -- is- is, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2717.945,"endTime":2720.19,"body":"know, you open -- I open up --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2717.945,"endTime":2720.19,"body":"I've been writing JavaScript for"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2720.19,"endTime":2722.831,"body":"20 years. I open up a TypeScript"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2720.19,"endTime":2722.831,"body":"file, and I'm like, \"This looks"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2722.831,"endTime":2724.0,"body":"like ... nonsense to me.\""},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2724.0,"endTime":2729.0,"body":"A-ha. Thank you [laughs]"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2724.0,"endTime":2729.0,"body":"[clap hands]."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2724.0,"endTime":2726.701,"body":"I can't understand it, and"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2724.0,"endTime":2726.701,"body":"I close it. But"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2726.701,"endTime":2729.0,"body":"I -- and I- and I, like, I'm --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2726.701,"endTime":2729.0,"body":"in-instead of like"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2729.0,"endTime":2730.721,"body":"digging in or asking"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2730.721,"endTime":2733.36,"body":"questions and making myself, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2730.721,"endTime":2733.36,"body":"know, possibly look like I don't"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2733.36,"endTime":2736.0,"body":"know everything, I close it, and"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2733.36,"endTime":2736.0,"body":"run away, and say,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2736.0,"endTime":2737.351,"body":"\"TypeScript is dumb [Bekah"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2736.0,"endTime":2737.351,"body":"chuckles]. It- it's"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2737.356,"endTime":2739.0,"body":"dumb [chuckles],\" you know?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2737.356,"endTime":2739.0,"body":"[David laughs] That's what"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2739.0,"endTime":2741.01,"body":"I've done for the last 10 years"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2739.0,"endTime":2741.01,"body":"or"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2741.016,"endTime":2744.01,"body":"whatever. And so, finally I was"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2741.016,"endTime":2744.01,"body":"like, \"Okay. Let's- let's- let's"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2744.01,"endTime":2745.271,"body":"dig in.\" And so -- you know what"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2744.01,"endTime":2745.271,"body":"I mean? Yeah."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2745.496,"endTime":2748.735,"body":"Okay. And full on every"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2745.496,"endTime":2748.735,"body":"time I've ranted about Webpack,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2748.735,"endTime":2752.126,"body":"or TypeScript, I'm aware that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2748.735,"endTime":2752.126,"body":"it's because I haven't spent"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2752.126,"endTime":2752.8,"body":"the time to learn it."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2753.0,"endTime":2756.0,"body":"[All laugh] Yeah."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2756.0,"endTime":2757.272,"body":"[Laughs] Sometimes it's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2756.0,"endTime":2757.272,"body":"fun to put on that grumpy old"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2757.272,"endTime":2758.544,"body":"man hat-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2758.0,"endTime":2758.545,"body":"Oh, absolutely."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2758.545,"endTime":2759.805,"body":"-and say, \"Yeah, I've"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2758.545,"endTime":2759.805,"body":"been programming JavaScript"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2759.805,"endTime":2761.065,"body":"since"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2761.065,"endTime":2763.0,"body":"before there were types. I don't"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2761.065,"endTime":2763.0,"body":"-- who needs types?"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2763.0,"endTime":2764.246,"body":"[Bekah chuckles] Like, write"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2763.0,"endTime":2764.246,"body":"your"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2764.246,"endTime":2769.0,"body":"angle brackets. I -- whatever"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2764.246,"endTime":2769.0,"body":"[David and Dan laugh].\" No."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2769.0,"endTime":2771.106,"body":"It's -- but none of that one"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2769.0,"endTime":2771.106,"body":"does like --"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2771.135,"endTime":2773.686,"body":"really, there's an element of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2771.135,"endTime":2773.686,"body":"humility that's important to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2773.686,"endTime":2775.351,"body":"practice in this industry."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2773.686,"endTime":2775.351,"body":"Because there's so much lack of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2775.351,"endTime":2777.016,"body":"humility"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2777.315,"endTime":2780.945,"body":"abounds, arrogance abounds,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2777.315,"endTime":2780.945,"body":"gatekeeping abounds. And"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2780.945,"endTime":2784.065,"body":"anything we can do to be humble"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2780.945,"endTime":2784.065,"body":"with each other and really"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2784.065,"endTime":2788.445,"body":"support each other ... to work"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2784.065,"endTime":2788.445,"body":"together and to grow together"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2788.445,"endTime":2790.396,"body":"is a- a net positive. That's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2788.445,"endTime":2790.396,"body":"[unintelligible]."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2790.646,"endTime":2792.476,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. And- and I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2790.646,"endTime":2792.476,"body":"think a lot of that arrogance,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2792.476,"endTime":2794.306,"body":"and"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2794.786,"endTime":2798.985,"body":"gatekeeping, and some -- i-i-is-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2794.786,"endTime":2798.985,"body":"is because -- the root"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2798.985,"endTime":2800.0,"body":"cause of it is insecurity,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2798.985,"endTime":2800.0,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2800.0,"endTime":2800.0,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2800.0,"endTime":2803.53,"body":"And- and not wanting to-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2800.0,"endTime":2803.53,"body":"not wanting to look ... dumber."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2803.53,"endTime":2804.985,"body":"Look like you don't know things"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2803.53,"endTime":2804.985,"body":"[chuckles]. And I've- I've"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2804.985,"endTime":2806.44,"body":"fallen in"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2806.44,"endTime":2808.03,"body":"that trap. I- I try, like -- I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2806.44,"endTime":2808.03,"body":"don't- I don't know. Maybe I- I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2808.03,"endTime":2809.62,"body":"haven't-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2809.65,"endTime":2812.17,"body":"haven't noticed. But I- I don't"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2809.65,"endTime":2812.17,"body":"usually -- for me it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2812.231,"endTime":2815.021,"body":"manifest as gatekeeping,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2812.231,"endTime":2815.021,"body":"hopefully, or things like"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2815.021,"endTime":2816.476,"body":"that. It just manifests me"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2815.021,"endTime":2816.476,"body":"avoiding topics [chuckles]. I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2816.476,"endTime":2817.931,"body":"don't wanna- I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2817.931,"endTime":2819.115,"body":"don't wanna, you know, learn or"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2817.931,"endTime":2819.115,"body":"don't know or whatever, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2819.115,"endTime":2820.299,"body":"know?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2820.331,"endTime":2826.811,"body":"And that practicing humility and"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2820.331,"endTime":2826.811,"body":"practicing ... admitting or-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2826.811,"endTime":2830.666,"body":"or, you know, being public about"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2826.811,"endTime":2830.666,"body":"not knowing things is- is been"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2830.666,"endTime":2832.556,"body":"something I've been personally"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2830.666,"endTime":2832.556,"body":"working on for the last couple"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2832.556,"endTime":2835.0,"body":"years. And- and it's -- and it"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2832.556,"endTime":2835.0,"body":"feels good once you-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2835.0,"endTime":2835.585,"body":"[chuckles] once you turn the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2835.585,"endTime":2838.135,"body":"corner. Once you realize it"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2835.585,"endTime":2838.135,"body":"doesn't actually like-"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2838.135,"endTime":2838.195,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2838.195,"endTime":2841.0,"body":"-you know, hurt to not"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2838.195,"endTime":2841.0,"body":"know, literally, everything"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2841.0,"endTime":2842.005,"body":"in the world [laughs]."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2842.365,"endTime":2843.835,"body":"What I will say too, one"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2842.365,"endTime":2843.835,"body":"of the greatest learning"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2843.835,"endTime":2845.305,"body":"experiences"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2845.306,"endTime":2849.806,"body":"I've had over the past couple"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2845.306,"endTime":2849.806,"body":"years is watching conversations"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2849.806,"endTime":2854.096,"body":"in Slack between people who I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2849.806,"endTime":2854.096,"body":"see as experts in the field"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2854.246,"endTime":2857.335,"body":"asking each other questions,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2854.246,"endTime":2857.335,"body":"right? Like, \"Oh, okay. This is"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2857.34,"endTime":2859.766,"body":"how you ask that question.\" Or,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2857.34,"endTime":2859.766,"body":"you know, \"They don't know"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2859.766,"endTime":2861.821,"body":"everything.\" And that does help"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2859.766,"endTime":2861.821,"body":"provide more of an awareness"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2861.821,"endTime":2863.876,"body":"that"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2863.965,"endTime":2865.615,"body":"I can ask those questions too."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2867.13,"endTime":2868.345,"body":"Hmm. That reminds me. I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2867.13,"endTime":2868.345,"body":"wanna go back to that -- a part"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2868.345,"endTime":2869.56,"body":"of the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2869.561,"endTime":2871.9,"body":"question that you asked, Bekah,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2869.561,"endTime":2871.9,"body":"that we didn't really address."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2871.9,"endTime":2875.08,"body":"Which is what makes a good"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2871.9,"endTime":2875.08,"body":"question. And ... [clear throat]"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2875.08,"endTime":2878.26,"body":"if you think"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2878.26,"endTime":2880.81,"body":"about everything we've been"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2878.26,"endTime":2880.81,"body":"talking about, the faster you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2880.81,"endTime":2883.36,"body":"can"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2883.36,"endTime":2886.705,"body":"help somebody ... acclimatize to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2883.36,"endTime":2886.705,"body":"how to speak to you, the faster"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2886.705,"endTime":2890.05,"body":"you'll"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2890.05,"endTime":2893.141,"body":"get your question answered. And"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2890.05,"endTime":2893.141,"body":"so how do you do that? You learn"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2893.141,"endTime":2896.86,"body":"to add more detail in the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2893.141,"endTime":2896.86,"body":"question, which is like your"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2896.86,"endTime":2900.01,"body":"initial offering to somebody."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2896.86,"endTime":2900.01,"body":"When you're asking somebody for"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2900.01,"endTime":2903.911,"body":"help, the more you can put into"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2900.01,"endTime":2903.911,"body":"that question to say, \"I thought"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2903.911,"endTime":2906.296,"body":"about this,\" \"I tried this,\""},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2903.911,"endTime":2906.296,"body":"\"Here's the command I used,\""},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2906.296,"endTime":2908.681,"body":"\"Here's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2908.681,"endTime":2913.181,"body":"the output that I got.\" Like,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2908.681,"endTime":2913.181,"body":"the more language that you use,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2913.181,"endTime":2915.55,"body":"often it's a better question."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2913.181,"endTime":2915.55,"body":"Because you're giving somebody"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2915.55,"endTime":2917.335,"body":"more context and the ability to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2915.55,"endTime":2917.335,"body":"understand better where you're"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2917.335,"endTime":2919.12,"body":"at,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2919.601,"endTime":2923.561,"body":"and what you're really dealing"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2919.601,"endTime":2923.561,"body":"with. I- I get questions in my"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2923.561,"endTime":2925.031,"body":"job. Sometimes I get questions"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2923.561,"endTime":2925.031,"body":"like, \"The integration"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2925.031,"endTime":2926.501,"body":"environment"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2926.505,"endTime":2928.0,"body":"is down.\" [Bekah and Dan"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2926.505,"endTime":2928.0,"body":"chuckle] And I look at that,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2928.0,"endTime":2932.447,"body":"and I say, \"Okay, thank you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2928.0,"endTime":2932.447,"body":"[chuckles].\" [Cough] The"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2932.447,"endTime":2939.257,"body":"integration environment where I"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2932.447,"endTime":2939.257,"body":"work has probably like 75"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2939.257,"endTime":2941.116,"body":"microservices or more, across --"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2939.257,"endTime":2941.116,"body":"like, grouped into several"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2941.116,"endTime":2942.975,"body":"different"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2942.976,"endTime":2944.491,"body":"applications. And so,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2942.976,"endTime":2944.491,"body":"integration is down could mean"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2944.491,"endTime":2946.006,"body":"any number of"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2946.007,"endTime":2948.346,"body":"things. Are -- is that a -- is"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2946.007,"endTime":2948.346,"body":"-- are you getting an- an"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2948.346,"endTime":2950.685,"body":"authentication"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2950.686,"endTime":2954.347,"body":"error? Is that a, you know, do"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2950.686,"endTime":2954.347,"body":"you have an HTTP status code you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2954.347,"endTime":2957.496,"body":"can share? Do you have -- can"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2954.347,"endTime":2957.496,"body":"you tell me what application was"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2957.496,"endTime":2960.586,"body":"trying to call what application?"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2957.496,"endTime":2960.586,"body":"Can you tell me what was the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2960.586,"endTime":2962.339,"body":"actual response you got? What"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2960.586,"endTime":2962.339,"body":"was compared to the expected"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2962.339,"endTime":2964.092,"body":"response"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2964.092,"endTime":2966.581,"body":"you got? Can you tell me what"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2964.092,"endTime":2966.581,"body":"language you're working in? Can"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2966.581,"endTime":2969.222,"body":"you tell me what version of the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2966.581,"endTime":2969.222,"body":"language you're working in? Can"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2969.222,"endTime":2971.831,"body":"you tell me what libraries and"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2969.222,"endTime":2971.831,"body":"tools you're using that might be"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2971.836,"endTime":2975.431,"body":"relevant? You know, all of that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2971.836,"endTime":2975.431,"body":"detail is helpful. Partly cuz it"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2975.431,"endTime":2979.092,"body":"teaches the people who might"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2975.431,"endTime":2979.092,"body":"answer your question what"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2979.097,"endTime":2981.942,"body":"language they can use with you,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2979.097,"endTime":2981.942,"body":"because you're exposing what"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2981.942,"endTime":2986.882,"body":"language you know. And it's also"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2981.942,"endTime":2986.882,"body":"giving people more ... detail to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2986.882,"endTime":2988.366,"body":"hang onto. There are problems"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2986.882,"endTime":2988.366,"body":"that I can solve. And I have"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2988.366,"endTime":2989.85,"body":"done"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2989.851,"endTime":2992.911,"body":"in our Virtual Coffee's Slack,"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2989.851,"endTime":2992.911,"body":"where just seeing the error"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2992.911,"endTime":2995.311,"body":"message reminds me of something"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2992.911,"endTime":2995.311,"body":"I've already seen. And I can"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2995.311,"endTime":2998.041,"body":"point somebody without even"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2995.311,"endTime":2998.041,"body":"needing to be at a computer or"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2998.041,"endTime":3001.461,"body":"look at their screen. I can at"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":2998.041,"endTime":3001.461,"body":"least offer a few keywords or"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3001.461,"endTime":3004.132,"body":"say, \"Go try this,\" or, \"Go try"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3001.461,"endTime":3004.132,"body":"that,\" you know? And sometimes"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3004.132,"endTime":3006.0,"body":"that's enough to unblock"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3004.132,"endTime":3006.0,"body":"somebody. But if-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3006.0,"endTime":3006.0,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3006.0,"endTime":3008.0,"body":"-if the person who asked"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3006.0,"endTime":3008.0,"body":"the question didn't"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3008.0,"endTime":3012.981,"body":"include the actual error"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3008.0,"endTime":3012.981,"body":"message, then"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3012.987,"endTime":3015.264,"body":"I've seen also where that can"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3012.987,"endTime":3015.264,"body":"turn into a thread of 55"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3015.264,"endTime":3017.541,"body":"messages long"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3017.541,"endTime":3020.0,"body":"with people talking past each"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3017.541,"endTime":3020.0,"body":"other. So-"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3020.0,"endTime":3020.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3020.0,"endTime":3023.0,"body":"-as somebody who wants to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3020.0,"endTime":3023.0,"body":"ask a question, I don't"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3023.0,"endTime":3025.461,"body":"expect you to have solved the"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3023.0,"endTime":3025.461,"body":"problem."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3025.641,"endTime":3028.461,"body":"It's not this idea that, you"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3025.641,"endTime":3028.461,"body":"know, \"Don't come to me with"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3028.461,"endTime":3030.742,"body":"problems. Only come to me with"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3028.461,"endTime":3030.742,"body":"solutions.\" Like, it's not that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3030.862,"endTime":3036.202,"body":"business. Not at all. But it's"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3030.862,"endTime":3036.202,"body":"... share with me what you've"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3036.202,"endTime":3037.0,"body":"already thought about."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3038.0,"endTime":3038.0,"body":"Totally."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3038.0,"endTime":3041.407,"body":"And share with me as much"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3038.0,"endTime":3041.407,"body":"detail as you can about"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3041.407,"endTime":3044.226,"body":"what you know and what you don't"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3041.407,"endTime":3044.226,"body":"know. About the problem that"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3044.226,"endTime":3049.777,"body":"you're asking. Cuz that will"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3044.226,"endTime":3049.777,"body":"help me learn ... where you're"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3049.777,"endTime":3052.146,"body":"struggling and how to speak to"},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3049.777,"endTime":3052.146,"body":"you about it."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3053.016,"endTime":3055.597,"body":"Yeah. Thank you so much"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3053.016,"endTime":3055.597,"body":"for being here with us today,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3055.597,"endTime":3058.626,"body":"David. This was just fantastic."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3055.597,"endTime":3058.626,"body":"I feel like we could have done"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3058.806,"endTime":3060.366,"body":"three hours worth of this"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3058.806,"endTime":3060.366,"body":"conversation. But I do"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3060.366,"endTime":3061.926,"body":"appreciate"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3061.927,"endTime":3065.586,"body":"your time and thanks for helping"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3061.927,"endTime":3065.586,"body":"us to kick off our new"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3065.586,"endTime":3065.786,"body":"season."},{"speaker":"David","startTime":3066.501,"endTime":3067.461,"body":"Oh, my pleasure."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3068.092,"endTime":3073.494,"body":"Yeah. Thank you, David."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3068.092,"endTime":3073.494,"body":"Thank you for listening to this"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3073.494,"endTime":3076.9,"body":"episode of the Virtual Coffee"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3073.494,"endTime":3076.9,"body":"podcast. This episode was"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3076.9,"endTime":3079.78,"body":"produced by Dan Ott and Bekah"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3076.9,"endTime":3079.78,"body":"Hawrot Weigel. If you have"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3079.78,"endTime":3081.88,"body":"questions or comments, you can"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3079.78,"endTime":3081.88,"body":"hit us up on Twitter at"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3081.88,"endTime":3084.084,"body":"VirtualCoffeeIO, or email us at"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3081.88,"endTime":3084.084,"body":"podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3084.084,"endTime":3086.288,"body":"can"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3086.289,"endTime":3088.659,"body":"find the show notes, sign up for"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3086.289,"endTime":3088.659,"body":"the newsletter, check out any of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3088.659,"endTime":3091.9,"body":"our other resources on our"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3088.659,"endTime":3091.9,"body":"website, virtualcoffee.io. If"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3091.9,"endTime":3094.179,"body":"you're interested in sponsoring"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3091.9,"endTime":3094.179,"body":"Virtual Coffee, you can find out"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3094.179,"endTime":3097.96,"body":"more information on our website"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3094.179,"endTime":3097.96,"body":"at virtualcoffee.io/sponsorship."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3098.38,"endTime":3100.134,"body":"Please subscribe to our podcast"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3098.38,"endTime":3100.134,"body":"and be sure to leave us a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3100.134,"endTime":3101.888,"body":"review."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3102.28,"endTime":3104.139,"body":"Thanks for listening and we'll"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3102.28,"endTime":3104.139,"body":"see you next week!"}]}