{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":14.039,"endTime":17.64,"body":"Hello, and"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":14.039,"endTime":17.64,"body":"welcome to season two, Episode"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":17.64,"endTime":22.44,"body":"Four of the Virtual Coffee"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":17.64,"endTime":22.44,"body":"podcast. I'm Bekah, and this is"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":22.44,"endTime":25.679,"body":"a podcast that features members"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":22.44,"endTime":25.679,"body":"of the Virtual Coffee community."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":26.339,"endTime":29.25,"body":"Virtual Coffee is an intimate"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":26.339,"endTime":29.25,"body":"group of developers at all"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":29.25,"endTime":32.67,"body":"stages of their coding journey."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":29.25,"endTime":32.67,"body":"And they're here on this podcast"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":32.67,"endTime":35.49,"body":"sharing their stories and what"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":32.67,"endTime":35.49,"body":"they've learned. And we're here"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":35.52,"endTime":39.299,"body":"to share it with you. Here with"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":35.52,"endTime":39.299,"body":"me today is my co host, Dan."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":40.38,"endTime":42.78,"body":"Thanks, Bekah. Today,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":40.38,"endTime":42.78,"body":"we're joined by Debra-Kaye"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":42.81,"endTime":46.14,"body":"Elliott. Debra-Kaye is a front"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":42.81,"endTime":46.14,"body":"end developer going through a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":46.14,"endTime":48.63,"body":"bootcamp on she's adding a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":46.14,"endTime":48.63,"body":"community learning to her"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":48.63,"endTime":51.659,"body":"learning process. And she's a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":48.63,"endTime":51.659,"body":"career changer from the"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":51.659,"endTime":56.31,"body":"administrative field, and has"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":51.659,"endTime":56.31,"body":"always wanted to be in tech. And"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":56.31,"endTime":59.579,"body":"we talked about what it's like"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":56.31,"endTime":59.579,"body":"to be on the self taught"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":59.67,"endTime":64.079,"body":"developer journey, which I can"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":59.67,"endTime":64.079,"body":"tell you is a long one. We"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":64.079,"endTime":67.469,"body":"talked about imposter syndrome."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":64.079,"endTime":67.469,"body":"And also some of the key things"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":67.68,"endTime":69.48,"body":"that Debra-Kaye has learned"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":67.68,"endTime":69.48,"body":"along the way."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":70.109,"endTime":71.939,"body":"We start"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":70.109,"endTime":71.939,"body":"every episode of the podcast"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":71.939,"endTime":75.209,"body":"like we start every Virtual"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":71.939,"endTime":75.209,"body":"Coffee, we introduce ourselves"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":75.209,"endTime":79.019,"body":"with our name, where we're from"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":75.209,"endTime":79.019,"body":"what we do, and a random check"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":79.019,"endTime":83.01,"body":"in question. Today's random"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":79.019,"endTime":83.01,"body":"checking question is, if you"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":83.01,"endTime":86.79,"body":"were famous, what would you be"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":83.01,"endTime":86.79,"body":"famous for? We hope you enjoy"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":86.79,"endTime":99.54,"body":"this episode. Hey, I'm Bekah,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":86.79,"endTime":99.54,"body":"I'm a front end"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":95.879,"endTime":106.65,"body":"developer from a small town in"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":95.879,"endTime":106.65,"body":"Ohio. And if I could be famous"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":99.54,"endTime":111.54,"body":"for anything, I think--I like"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":99.54,"endTime":111.54,"body":"approach this in two ways, like"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":106.65,"endTime":111.54,"body":"one - like what might be"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":106.65,"endTime":111.54,"body":"possible"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":111.569,"endTime":116.01,"body":"or like two - anything? So I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":111.569,"endTime":116.01,"body":"really like the superhero, the"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":116.01,"endTime":123.629,"body":"flash, and so I would like to be"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":116.01,"endTime":123.629,"body":"famous for being the flash. And,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":124.079,"endTime":126.659,"body":"like the flash"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":124.079,"endTime":126.659,"body":"specifically, or just very, very"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":126.659,"endTime":127.319,"body":"fast?"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":127.95,"endTime":129.599,"body":"I don't"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":127.95,"endTime":129.599,"body":"know. I think I think I would"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":129.599,"endTime":139.74,"body":"like to be Barry Allen. If but,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":129.599,"endTime":139.74,"body":"if I had to do something that is"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":139.74,"endTime":144.479,"body":"more practical than that, I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":139.74,"endTime":144.479,"body":"would want to be the strongest"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":144.479,"endTime":147.9,"body":"mom in the world. I think I was"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":144.479,"endTime":147.9,"body":"telling someone earlier today. I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":147.9,"endTime":152.28,"body":"like weight lifting, heavy"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":147.9,"endTime":152.28,"body":"things. So I will be the"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":152.28,"endTime":155.37,"body":"strongest mom, because that"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":152.28,"endTime":155.37,"body":"that's realistic too."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":158.55,"endTime":161.729,"body":"Hi, I'm Dan. I'm a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":158.55,"endTime":161.729,"body":"front end developer from"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":161.909,"endTime":168.99,"body":"Lakewood, Ohio. I am not going"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":161.909,"endTime":168.99,"body":"practical at all. I my first"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":169.319,"endTime":173.159,"body":"instinct was you know, spaceship"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":169.319,"endTime":173.159,"body":"flying. So like, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":173.189,"endTime":175.289,"body":"the the Millennium Falcon or"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":173.189,"endTime":175.289,"body":"whatever, you know, doing the"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":175.289,"endTime":177.96,"body":"Kessel Run. I basically like"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":175.289,"endTime":177.96,"body":"that'd be my famous you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":178.139,"endTime":180.78,"body":"out Dan. Oh, man. He's thinking"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":178.139,"endTime":180.78,"body":"he's the fastest you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":180.96,"endTime":184.83,"body":"spaceship flyer there is so"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":180.96,"endTime":184.83,"body":"that's that's that's what that's"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":184.83,"endTime":185.25,"body":"my choice,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":185.639,"endTime":186.479,"body":"spaceship"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":185.639,"endTime":186.479,"body":"flyer?"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":186.479,"endTime":189.27,"body":"--spaceship pilot I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":186.479,"endTime":189.27,"body":"realized flyers are silly way to"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":189.27,"endTime":193.83,"body":"say. But, you know, so be it."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":189.27,"endTime":193.83,"body":"That's what it is: Dan, the"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":193.83,"endTime":194.729,"body":"spaceship flyer."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":197.03,"endTime":200.479,"body":"Hi, I am Debra-Kaye,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":197.03,"endTime":200.479,"body":"front end developer from"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":200.479,"endTime":208.25,"body":"Jamaica. If I was to be famous"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":200.479,"endTime":208.25,"body":"for anything. Um, my first"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":208.34,"endTime":212.27,"body":"answer would be like, fiction"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":208.34,"endTime":212.27,"body":"novels, because I am a sucker"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":212.27,"endTime":217.069,"body":"for fiction. And I tend to put a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":212.27,"endTime":217.069,"body":"book down when I start to read"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":217.069,"endTime":220.909,"body":"it. And I have a really long"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":217.069,"endTime":220.909,"body":"book list of books to read. And"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":220.909,"endTime":224.27,"body":"then my second answer would be"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":220.909,"endTime":224.27,"body":"I'm so happy to pick a superhero"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":224.27,"endTime":229.789,"body":"because my favorite superheroes"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":224.27,"endTime":229.789,"body":"are Captain Marvel and Deadpool."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":229.789,"endTime":234.199,"body":"So like if I could combine their"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":229.789,"endTime":234.199,"body":"two powers into one like that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":234.199,"endTime":237.77,"body":"would be because like I'm a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":234.199,"endTime":237.77,"body":"little bit obsessed with"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":237.77,"endTime":242.419,"body":"Deadpool. I don't know why I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":237.77,"endTime":242.419,"body":"love Ryan Reynolds. So yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":242.599,"endTime":244.729,"body":"I have two answers for those"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":242.599,"endTime":244.729,"body":"surprisingly so I'm so happy"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":244.729,"endTime":248.15,"body":"that it's not, like practical"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":244.729,"endTime":248.15,"body":"because I always go for"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":248.15,"endTime":250.039,"body":"superhero and books first."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":250.789,"endTime":252.889,"body":"That's sweet. That's"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":250.789,"endTime":252.889,"body":"pretty awesome. What are you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":252.889,"endTime":253.789,"body":"what are you reading right now?"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":254.909,"endTime":260.759,"body":"Um, so I'm reading"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":254.909,"endTime":260.759,"body":"its title-- let me, one sec"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":260.819,"endTime":267.899,"body":"sorry cuz. Yeah, cuz I am almost"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":260.819,"endTime":267.899,"body":"halfway, Well, I'm past halfway"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":267.899,"endTime":274.5,"body":"through the book. And it's by"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":267.899,"endTime":274.5,"body":"Estella Vasquez Perez in her"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":274.5,"endTime":278.459,"body":"last name is. And it's a series."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":274.5,"endTime":278.459,"body":"So I'm on the second"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":278.459,"endTime":285.3,"body":"book. And it's called Dark"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":278.459,"endTime":285.3,"body":"Serenade. Yeah, so it's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":285.3,"endTime":288.99,"body":"Montenegro Book Two dark"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":285.3,"endTime":288.99,"body":"serenade by Estella Vasquez"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":288.99,"endTime":289.62,"body":"Perez."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":290.31,"endTime":292.11,"body":"Well you're on Book"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":290.31,"endTime":292.11,"body":"Two, then you must have like the"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":292.11,"endTime":292.35,"body":"first."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":292.35,"endTime":294.899,"body":"Yes, there's three"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":292.35,"endTime":294.899,"body":"books so yeah, actually bought"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":294.899,"endTime":298.529,"body":"this one because the first one"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":294.899,"endTime":298.529,"body":"was free, I know they knew what"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":298.529,"endTime":301.589,"body":"to do series first And then see"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":298.529,"endTime":301.589,"body":"f you like, it sounds like you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":301.589,"endTime":304.709,"body":"eed to finish series. So two or"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":301.589,"endTime":304.709,"body":"three now."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":305.22,"endTime":309.54,"body":"That's awesome. Nice."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":305.22,"endTime":309.54,"body":"I've gotten into a bad habit of"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":309.6,"endTime":311.699,"body":"getting the first book of a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":309.6,"endTime":311.699,"body":"series on the library or"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":311.699,"endTime":314.49,"body":"whatever. And then just like the"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":311.699,"endTime":314.49,"body":"second one isn't available, and"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":314.49,"endTime":318.75,"body":"I need it and just buy it, or if"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":314.49,"endTime":318.75,"body":"I can find the set, because I'm"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":318.75,"endTime":320.55,"body":"just like, Alright, well, I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":318.75,"endTime":320.55,"body":"know, I'm just gonna do this"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":320.55,"endTime":321.449,"body":"with the third one or whatever."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":322.709,"endTime":324.629,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":322.709,"endTime":324.629,"body":"always make the mistake of"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":324.629,"endTime":327.298,"body":"waiting for it to come in from"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":324.629,"endTime":327.298,"body":"the library. And then by the"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":327.298,"endTime":330.509,"body":"time it comes in, I'm like, what"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":327.298,"endTime":330.509,"body":"happened in book one?"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":332.699,"endTime":336.389,"body":"Like, what I've been"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":332.699,"endTime":336.389,"body":"trying to do now is if I see"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":336.389,"endTime":339.658,"body":"that the book is a series, after"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":336.389,"endTime":339.658,"body":"like, decide, okay, I'm either"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":339.658,"endTime":342.629,"body":"gonna read through the entire"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":339.658,"endTime":342.629,"body":"series before I take up any"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":342.629,"endTime":347.459,"body":"other book, or leave that until"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":342.629,"endTime":347.459,"body":"like the very end, because if I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":347.459,"endTime":350.548,"body":"started series, I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":347.459,"endTime":350.548,"body":"be like, okay, read book one,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":351.178,"endTime":353.579,"body":"then start something and then"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":351.178,"endTime":353.579,"body":"forgot what happened in that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":353.579,"endTime":356.309,"body":"book, one would have to meet"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":353.579,"endTime":356.309,"body":"over so Yeah, totally."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":357.12,"endTime":359.31,"body":"It's a good"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":357.12,"endTime":359.31,"body":"strategy. Alright, Debra-Kaye,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":359.31,"endTime":362.79,"body":"we are super happy to have you"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":359.31,"endTime":362.79,"body":"here with us today. And we"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":362.79,"endTime":366.839,"body":"always like to get started with"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":362.79,"endTime":366.839,"body":"what brought a person to this"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":366.839,"endTime":370.019,"body":"place in their life. So if you"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":366.839,"endTime":370.019,"body":"want to give us the Debra-Kaye"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":370.05,"endTime":372.48,"body":"origin story, we would love to"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":370.05,"endTime":372.48,"body":"hear it."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":373.588,"endTime":380.399,"body":"Oh, I could talk"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":373.588,"endTime":380.399,"body":"about this all day. Oh, I'm so"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":380.699,"endTime":383.608,"body":"actually studied information"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":380.699,"endTime":383.608,"body":"technology. I did my degree in"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":383.608,"endTime":388.499,"body":"information technology, like"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":383.608,"endTime":388.499,"body":"seven years ago, eight years"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":388.499,"endTime":393.028,"body":"ago. Um, because I always like"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":388.499,"endTime":393.028,"body":"to take always like the web--I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":393.059,"endTime":397.858,"body":"taught myselt to use a computer"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":393.059,"endTime":397.858,"body":"when I was like 16. But just"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":397.858,"endTime":401.788,"body":"didn't really have any sense of"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":397.858,"endTime":401.788,"body":"direction and didn't know what"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":401.788,"endTime":405.749,"body":"development was, I think so just"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":401.788,"endTime":405.749,"body":"didn't really know how to get"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":405.749,"endTime":411.959,"body":"into the field. So I studied IT,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":405.749,"endTime":411.959,"body":"did a degree and just never got"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":411.959,"endTime":415.019,"body":"a job in it. Because that is"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":411.959,"endTime":415.019,"body":"wasn't able to when there was no"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":415.019,"endTime":421.319,"body":"guidance, no anything. And where"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":415.019,"endTime":421.319,"body":"I'm from in Jamaica, it's mostly"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":421.408,"endTime":426.869,"body":"always system admins, network"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":421.408,"endTime":426.869,"body":"admins, and I dislike hardware."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":426.869,"endTime":430.408,"body":"I did not like hardware. But"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":426.869,"endTime":430.408,"body":"I'll play it with software all"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":430.408,"endTime":435.809,"body":"day. So I just didn't know what"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":430.408,"endTime":435.809,"body":"to do, how to get in it. And it"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":435.809,"endTime":440.309,"body":"always seemed like programming"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":435.809,"endTime":440.309,"body":"was this rocket science thing"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":440.309,"endTime":444.778,"body":"that only certain people could"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":440.309,"endTime":444.778,"body":"do. So I was like, Okay, I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":444.778,"endTime":448.649,"body":"know what to do with. So I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":444.778,"endTime":448.649,"body":"discovered I like design too. So"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":448.649,"endTime":451.678,"body":"I did like a couple of courses"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":448.649,"endTime":451.678,"body":"in graphic design. And then I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":451.678,"endTime":455.579,"body":"was like, Okay, I'll go to that."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":451.678,"endTime":455.579,"body":"But then after a year, I was"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":455.579,"endTime":460.108,"body":"like, No, I really don't like it"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":455.579,"endTime":460.108,"body":"as much. I like it, but not as"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":460.108,"endTime":465.629,"body":"much as I did. And then in 2019,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":460.108,"endTime":465.629,"body":"I was like, wait, it's time to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":465.629,"endTime":468.329,"body":"be active on Twitter again"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":465.629,"endTime":468.329,"body":"because I had an account, but"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":468.329,"endTime":471.088,"body":"just didn't do anything with it."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":468.329,"endTime":471.088,"body":"And I kept seeing people talk"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":471.088,"endTime":474.869,"body":"about this thing. I was like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":471.088,"endTime":474.869,"body":"wait, this is a thing. And then"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":474.869,"endTime":481.738,"body":"I got the courage to dm somebody"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":474.869,"endTime":481.738,"body":"and ask them like, how do you go"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":481.738,"endTime":484.408,"body":"about this? What is it, and they"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":481.738,"endTime":484.408,"body":"were like, what do you what do"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":484.408,"endTime":487.649,"body":"you like? And they're announced,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":484.408,"endTime":487.649,"body":"like saying like, okay, you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":487.649,"endTime":491.369,"body":"could do UX UI. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":487.649,"endTime":491.369,"body":"Okay, then I went down that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":491.369,"endTime":494.338,"body":"rabbit hole of research for"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":491.369,"endTime":494.338,"body":"months and months and months."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":494.968,"endTime":497.819,"body":"And that's an aside to realize,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":494.968,"endTime":497.819,"body":"like, oh, but development is a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":497.819,"endTime":502.798,"body":"thing. People actually do this."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":497.819,"endTime":502.798,"body":"And it can be done. I don't have"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":502.798,"endTime":507.178,"body":"to go back to university for it."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":502.798,"endTime":507.178,"body":"Okay, how do I do this? So I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":507.178,"endTime":511.019,"body":"went down the rabbit hole and"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":507.178,"endTime":511.019,"body":"bookmarked all the courses and"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":511.199,"endTime":514.288,"body":"enrolled in lots of things that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":511.199,"endTime":514.288,"body":"I to this day haven't gotten"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":514.288,"endTime":517.948,"body":"back to. But when I actually"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":514.288,"endTime":517.948,"body":"started to realize that there"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":517.948,"endTime":522.958,"body":"was actually a way a path to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":517.948,"endTime":522.958,"body":"actually do it. I was like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":522.958,"endTime":526.499,"body":"Okay, yeah, this is a, this is a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":522.958,"endTime":526.499,"body":"side of things to figure out how"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":526.499,"endTime":529.408,"body":"to do it. But this is the this"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":526.499,"endTime":529.408,"body":"is what I've been searching for."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":529.438,"endTime":533.249,"body":"And when I was always I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":529.438,"endTime":533.249,"body":"have to know, every single"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":533.249,"endTime":539.519,"body":"thing. And there are certain"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":533.249,"endTime":539.519,"body":"things that you should know. But"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":539.519,"endTime":542.908,"body":"then there are other paths in"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":539.519,"endTime":542.908,"body":"tech that you really don't need"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":542.908,"endTime":547.889,"body":"to get into. Like, okay, I can"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":542.908,"endTime":547.889,"body":"do this. So I'm probably going"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":547.889,"endTime":553.109,"body":"to need some some help, but it"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":547.889,"endTime":553.109,"body":"can be done. So that's a long"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":553.109,"endTime":558.479,"body":"winded we have over the course"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":553.109,"endTime":558.479,"body":"of several years. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":559.98,"endTime":561.389,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":559.98,"endTime":561.389,"body":"that's so great. And I think"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":561.389,"endTime":563.73,"body":"that so many of us, like, I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":561.389,"endTime":563.73,"body":"know, I've been down that rabbit"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":563.73,"endTime":568.529,"body":"hole a number of times, right?"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":563.73,"endTime":568.529,"body":"And there is so much out there"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":568.529,"endTime":571.95,"body":"to try and figure out like what"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":568.529,"endTime":571.95,"body":"everybody will say like, Well,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":571.95,"endTime":574.47,"body":"what do you like doing? And"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":571.95,"endTime":574.47,"body":"sometimes you don't even know"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":574.47,"endTime":577.62,"body":"what you like doing because you"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":574.47,"endTime":577.62,"body":"don't know what's available and"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":577.0,"endTime":580.149,"body":"And sometimes it's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":577.0,"endTime":580.149,"body":"more than one thing too."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":580.24,"endTime":581.23,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":582.22,"endTime":583.899,"body":"Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":582.22,"endTime":583.899,"body":"figuring out how those work"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":583.899,"endTime":586.69,"body":"together. I think it's really"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":583.899,"endTime":586.69,"body":"great that you dm somebody and"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":586.69,"endTime":589.69,"body":"ask for help because I think"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":586.69,"endTime":589.69,"body":"that can be a struggle just to"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":589.69,"endTime":593.08,"body":"get to that place and to know"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":589.69,"endTime":593.08,"body":"that you know you were willing"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":593.08,"endTime":596.47,"body":"to put yourself out there is"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":593.08,"endTime":596.47,"body":"such a great first step."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":597.269,"endTime":601.049,"body":"Yeah, and funny"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":597.269,"endTime":601.049,"body":"thing too when I did that  I DM"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":601.08,"endTime":605.789,"body":"is this guy that I have been"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":601.08,"endTime":605.789,"body":"following for a while on"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":605.789,"endTime":610.35,"body":"Twitter, but he is a, I think"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":605.789,"endTime":610.35,"body":"he's a Ruby on Rails developer,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":610.35,"endTime":616.59,"body":"if I'm not mistaken. And he has"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":610.35,"endTime":616.59,"body":"been doing it for like, over 10"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":616.59,"endTime":622.23,"body":"years because he like taught"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":616.59,"endTime":622.23,"body":"himself. And he, I sent him this"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":622.23,"endTime":625.169,"body":"long message. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":622.23,"endTime":625.169,"body":"you know, and he'll never see"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":625.169,"endTime":628.44,"body":"this, and he'll never respond."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":625.169,"endTime":628.44,"body":"And he actually responded, I was"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":628.44,"endTime":632.34,"body":"like, Oh, my god. And he's like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":628.44,"endTime":632.34,"body":"yeah, you can do this, just"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":632.34,"endTime":636.36,"body":"like, Look, look into this"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":632.34,"endTime":636.36,"body":"avenue, since you like design."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":636.36,"endTime":639.659,"body":"And I was like, Oh, my god,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":636.36,"endTime":639.659,"body":"somebody responded, and from him"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":639.659,"endTime":643.71,"body":"telling me that you can do it."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":639.659,"endTime":643.71,"body":"And he was also self taught, I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":643.71,"endTime":646.98,"body":"was like, Oh, my god, it's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":643.71,"endTime":646.98,"body":"actually a thing. Like, there's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":646.98,"endTime":650.519,"body":"actually some kind of path here,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":646.98,"endTime":650.519,"body":"some kind of Avenue, there's a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":650.519,"endTime":653.73,"body":"way to actually get into this"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":650.519,"endTime":653.73,"body":"field, because I always wanted"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":653.73,"endTime":658.74,"body":"to be in tech, but I just never"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":653.73,"endTime":658.74,"body":"got an opportunity to. And"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":658.74,"endTime":661.529,"body":"actually, for someone to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":658.74,"endTime":661.529,"body":"actually who's been doing it for"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":661.529,"endTime":666.72,"body":"a while, and encouraging people"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":661.529,"endTime":666.72,"body":"to get into tech and tell you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":666.72,"endTime":669.87,"body":"that, hey, it can be done."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":666.72,"endTime":669.87,"body":"There's actually a way they seem"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":669.87,"endTime":674.039,"body":"to figure out what works for"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":669.87,"endTime":674.039,"body":"you. But it can be done. So that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":674.039,"endTime":674.97,"body":"was really cool."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":677.09,"endTime":681.259,"body":"I love that. I was"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":677.09,"endTime":681.259,"body":"wondering like how he said, find"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":681.259,"endTime":685.25,"body":"out which ways work for you. So"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":681.259,"endTime":685.25,"body":"what have you found to be the"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":685.25,"endTime":688.669,"body":"most like personally useful, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":685.25,"endTime":688.669,"body":"know, tools to learn other"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":688.669,"endTime":692.09,"body":"courses or tutorials? Or, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":688.669,"endTime":692.09,"body":"know, what kind of what kind of"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":692.09,"endTime":693.5,"body":"strategies, or have you been"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":692.09,"endTime":693.5,"body":"using?"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":694.649,"endTime":697.379,"body":"I have been in--No,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":694.649,"endTime":697.379,"body":"I won't, I won't say another"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":697.379,"endTime":701.159,"body":"tutoria hell- I'm not saying"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":697.379,"endTime":701.159,"body":"tutorial hell. But I, when I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":701.159,"endTime":705.149,"body":"started, I was enrolling in"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":701.159,"endTime":705.149,"body":"every free course that I could"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":705.149,"endTime":708.509,"body":"find. Because you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":705.149,"endTime":708.509,"body":"a treehouse, and there's Udemy."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":708.509,"endTime":712.649,"body":"And there's everything. So I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":708.509,"endTime":712.649,"body":"have like a bookmark folder full"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":712.679,"endTime":716.82,"body":"of courses that I could sign up"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":712.679,"endTime":716.82,"body":"for. And then I signed up for a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":716.82,"endTime":721.11,"body":"bunch of Udemy courses, never"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":716.82,"endTime":721.11,"body":"took them, but like I signed up"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":721.11,"endTime":725.7,"body":"for them. And then I bought like"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":721.11,"endTime":725.7,"body":"one or two Udemy courses, that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":725.7,"endTime":730.139,"body":"recommended ones. And I still"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":725.7,"endTime":730.139,"body":"haven't gotten to those that I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":730.139,"endTime":733.289,"body":"bought yet. And then I started a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":730.139,"endTime":733.289,"body":"Free Code Camp. And then I was"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":733.289,"endTime":738.69,"body":"doing I'm currently doing front"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":733.289,"endTime":738.69,"body":"end masters. And then I was like"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":738.72,"endTime":742.86,"body":"10 attorneys do two three at the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":738.72,"endTime":742.86,"body":"same time. And it took me like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":743.429,"endTime":746.909,"body":"four months to realize that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":743.429,"endTime":746.909,"body":"Okay, one of them is not"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":746.909,"endTime":750.779,"body":"sticking with information. And"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":746.909,"endTime":750.779,"body":"it just wasn't understanding."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":751.47,"endTime":754.379,"body":"And it's like, okay, trying to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":751.47,"endTime":754.379,"body":"juggle too many courses at the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":754.379,"endTime":758.82,"body":"same time. They're all the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":754.379,"endTime":758.82,"body":"basically the fundamentals of"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":758.82,"endTime":762.57,"body":"HTML, CSS, I haven't gotten to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":758.82,"endTime":762.57,"body":"JavaScript yet. But I was trying"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":762.57,"endTime":768.12,"body":"to like balance. What I was"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":762.57,"endTime":768.12,"body":"learning from one boot camp, to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":768.12,"endTime":770.129,"body":"what I was doing with the other"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":768.12,"endTime":770.129,"body":"I was like, wait, but they"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":770.129,"endTime":772.889,"body":"didn't show me this one in this"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":770.129,"endTime":772.889,"body":"boot camp. So this doesn't make"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":772.889,"endTime":778.019,"body":"sense. And I had to just decide"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":772.889,"endTime":778.019,"body":"like, okay, pick one. Job, the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":778.019,"endTime":784.679,"body":"others, try to finish this one,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":778.019,"endTime":784.679,"body":"and then maybe pick up another"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":784.679,"endTime":789.809,"body":"one afterwards. So I was, so I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":784.679,"endTime":789.809,"body":"mainly use some front end"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":789.809,"endTime":794.19,"body":"masters, and of course, YouTube."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":789.809,"endTime":794.19,"body":"And I haven't even gotten to the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":794.19,"endTime":798.57,"body":"Udemy ones yet. But I have like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":794.19,"endTime":798.57,"body":"one boot camp with me because I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":798.57,"endTime":801.929,"body":"did buy the cold Steel's boot"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":798.57,"endTime":801.929,"body":"camp last year, but I still"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":801.929,"endTime":808.23,"body":"haven't gotten to it yet. So"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":801.929,"endTime":808.23,"body":"main sources, front end masters."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":809.58,"endTime":813.48,"body":"Free Code Camp here for some"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":809.58,"endTime":813.48,"body":"little things like piece of code"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":813.48,"endTime":817.62,"body":"that I know that I honestly"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":813.48,"endTime":817.62,"body":"better than and Udemy and"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":817.62,"endTime":822.389,"body":"YouTube.  Yeah. Those are the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":817.62,"endTime":822.389,"body":"main ones."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":824.039,"endTime":825.99,"body":"I think it"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":824.039,"endTime":825.99,"body":"can be super hard as you're"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":825.99,"endTime":828.36,"body":"trying to figure that out, too."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":825.99,"endTime":828.36,"body":"Right? Like you're seeing there"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":828.36,"endTime":833.519,"body":"can be conflicting material or"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":828.36,"endTime":833.519,"body":"one teaches one approach. And"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":833.549,"endTime":837.99,"body":"there's, it just makes it really"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":833.549,"endTime":837.99,"body":"hard to kind of learn. But also,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":837.99,"endTime":842.759,"body":"if you can find something that's"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":837.99,"endTime":842.759,"body":"good, I was doing a boot camp"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":842.82,"endTime":847.47,"body":"before I went to flat iron that"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":842.82,"endTime":847.47,"body":"I just dreaded opening up every"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":847.47,"endTime":852.24,"body":"morning. Because the material"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":847.47,"endTime":852.24,"body":"was just so hard for me. It was"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":852.24,"endTime":856.11,"body":"a lot of videos, and I struggle"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":852.24,"endTime":856.11,"body":"with videos. And they just kept"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":856.11,"endTime":859.98,"body":"trying to make jokes in the"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":856.11,"endTime":859.98,"body":"videos. And I was so frustrated"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":859.98,"endTime":864.75,"body":"with it. Like just just tell me"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":859.98,"endTime":864.75,"body":"what I need to do. And then just"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":864.84,"endTime":868.23,"body":"deciding I'm not doing this,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":864.84,"endTime":868.23,"body":"it's not worth it. If it's gonna"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":868.23,"endTime":871.62,"body":"make me frustrated and hate what"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":868.23,"endTime":871.62,"body":"I'm doing, then I need to find"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":871.62,"endTime":874.2,"body":"something better. And that works"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":871.62,"endTime":874.2,"body":"for me. And so I think that"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":874.2,"endTime":877.59,"body":"sometimes exactly what you did"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":874.2,"endTime":877.59,"body":"is a good path, like look at"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":877.59,"endTime":880.74,"body":"these things, and then kind of"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":877.59,"endTime":880.74,"body":"figure out what you need to"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":880.74,"endTime":881.399,"body":"focus on."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":882.21,"endTime":886.679,"body":"Yeah, and the funny"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":882.21,"endTime":886.679,"body":"thing is like I was doing and"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":886.71,"endTime":890.82,"body":"granted, granted. Free Code Camp"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":886.71,"endTime":890.82,"body":"is a great resource, like that's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":890.82,"endTime":894.36,"body":"the first thing I tell everybody"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":890.82,"endTime":894.36,"body":"to go to. And like for the first"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":894.36,"endTime":898.44,"body":"like couple sections. I was like"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":894.36,"endTime":898.44,"body":"okay, yeah, I understand this,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":898.769,"endTime":903.179,"body":"but I got like, half Through"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":898.769,"endTime":903.179,"body":"CSS, and I was like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":903.179,"endTime":906.48,"body":"know what I'm doing. And it will"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":903.179,"endTime":906.48,"body":"say things like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":906.48,"endTime":910.169,"body":"remember so and so I was like, I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":906.48,"endTime":910.169,"body":"would have to literally go back"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":910.169,"endTime":913.5,"body":"to that read the thing again, do"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":910.169,"endTime":913.5,"body":"the little exercise again,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":913.5,"endTime":917.159,"body":"because I just wasn't getting"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":913.5,"endTime":917.159,"body":"it. And then I kept switching"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":917.159,"endTime":919.889,"body":"between that and something else."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":917.159,"endTime":919.889,"body":"And that's important in frontend"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":919.889,"endTime":923.94,"body":"masters. I was like, I need to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":919.889,"endTime":923.94,"body":"pick one. And when I started"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":923.94,"endTime":927.539,"body":"frontend Masters again, for"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":923.94,"endTime":927.539,"body":"like, the third time, I was"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":927.539,"endTime":931.74,"body":"like, Oh, wait, this makes"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":927.539,"endTime":931.74,"body":"sense. No. And it took me like"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":931.74,"endTime":936.96,"body":"partway through to realize that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":931.74,"endTime":936.96,"body":"I wasn't learning inline CSS for"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":937.559,"endTime":941.97,"body":"one boot camp, and external CSS"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":937.559,"endTime":941.97,"body":"for the other one. And that's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":941.97,"endTime":947.009,"body":"why it wasn't clicking. Because"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":941.97,"endTime":947.009,"body":"I despise inline CSS, like, I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":947.009,"endTime":949.649,"body":"just don't read the code. I was"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":947.009,"endTime":949.649,"body":"like, I don't know what this is"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":949.649,"endTime":952.919,"body":"saying. But it is the external"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":949.649,"endTime":952.919,"body":"stylesheet what I can see"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":952.919,"endTime":958.86,"body":"everything like, lined up. I was"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":952.919,"endTime":958.86,"body":"like, oh, and that's when he"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":958.86,"endTime":961.529,"body":"starts to click. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":958.86,"endTime":961.529,"body":"okay, yep, jump in this one for"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":961.529,"endTime":963.72,"body":"now, because I don't understand"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":961.529,"endTime":963.72,"body":"anything here. And let me go do"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":963.72,"endTime":966.57,"body":"this one, because I understand"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":963.72,"endTime":966.57,"body":"this one better. And I also"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":966.57,"endTime":970.71,"body":"like, boot camps or tutorials"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":966.57,"endTime":970.71,"body":"where you get like little"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":970.71,"endTime":974.34,"body":"exercises to do on your own. And"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":970.71,"endTime":974.34,"body":"you actually have to write the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":974.34,"endTime":978.21,"body":"code or to yourself, that you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":974.34,"endTime":978.21,"body":"have to type it from beginning"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":978.21,"endTime":981.72,"body":"from your h1, and you have to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":978.21,"endTime":981.72,"body":"like everything on your own,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":981.72,"endTime":985.919,"body":"because it helps us do better"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":981.72,"endTime":985.919,"body":"than when a tutorial gives you a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":985.919,"endTime":989.22,"body":"part of the code. And you have"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":985.919,"endTime":989.22,"body":"to like change a little one lane"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":989.22,"endTime":993.179,"body":"or a little change a color. So"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":989.22,"endTime":993.179,"body":"for me, it worked better, where"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":993.179,"endTime":997.83,"body":"I had to, like, type everything"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":993.179,"endTime":997.83,"body":"out myself, because it helped it"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":997.83,"endTime":998.429,"body":"stick out."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1000.279,"endTime":1004.84,"body":"Yeah, I'm the same way"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1000.279,"endTime":1004.84,"body":"I am. I don't know, I don't ever"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1004.87,"endTime":1007.96,"body":"remember anything from like"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1004.87,"endTime":1007.96,"body":"reading or watching videos or"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1007.96,"endTime":1010.929,"body":"anything like that until I until"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1007.96,"endTime":1010.929,"body":"I can actually, you know, write"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1010.929,"endTime":1015.22,"body":"it or apply it or whatever."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1010.929,"endTime":1015.22,"body":"Whether it's exercise, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1015.22,"endTime":1018.309,"body":"at the end of a course, or, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1015.22,"endTime":1018.309,"body":"know, actually trying to do a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1018.309,"endTime":1022.36,"body":"project that uses whatever I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1018.309,"endTime":1022.36,"body":"learned that kind of thing. For"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1022.36,"endTime":1025.9,"body":"me, that is always it's always a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1022.36,"endTime":1025.9,"body":"way to make it actually stick in"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1025.9,"endTime":1028.75,"body":"my brain and if I'm going to be"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1025.9,"endTime":1028.75,"body":"honest, to actually understand"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1028.75,"endTime":1031.029,"body":"it, you know, I'll sit there not"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1028.75,"endTime":1031.029,"body":"through a video or a talk or"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1031.029,"endTime":1035.109,"body":"something, and I won't ever if"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1031.029,"endTime":1035.109,"body":"somebody asked me a question at"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1035.109,"endTime":1039.849,"body":"the end, I'd be like, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1035.109,"endTime":1039.849,"body":"really sure. Until I, it's I sit"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1039.849,"endTime":1042.369,"body":"there and use it, you know? And"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1039.849,"endTime":1042.369,"body":"I'm like, okay, yes, yeah."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1043.869,"endTime":1046.48,"body":"Yeah, and one of the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1043.869,"endTime":1046.48,"body":"things that I found that work"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1046.48,"endTime":1050.23,"body":"for me too, is like, shorter"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1046.48,"endTime":1050.23,"body":"videos, because there are some"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1050.23,"endTime":1055.18,"body":"tutorials that are like, an hour"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1050.23,"endTime":1055.18,"body":"long, four hours long, like 20"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1055.21,"endTime":1059.71,"body":"hours, this and you know, and I,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1055.21,"endTime":1059.71,"body":"like I can't, my attention span"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1059.71,"endTime":1063.789,"body":"is like really short. So like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1059.71,"endTime":1063.789,"body":"with the front end masters"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1063.789,"endTime":1066.549,"body":"videos, they're all like really"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1063.789,"endTime":1066.549,"body":"short, like a minute, four"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1066.549,"endTime":1070.299,"body":"minutes, five minutes. But for"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1066.549,"endTime":1070.299,"body":"me watching a video is actually"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1070.99,"endTime":1074.95,"body":"like, the instructor will say"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1070.99,"endTime":1074.95,"body":"one thing and be like, to do"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1074.95,"endTime":1077.95,"body":"this, you do this, and I hit"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1074.95,"endTime":1077.95,"body":"pause, and I'll just start to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1077.95,"endTime":1084.91,"body":"try to do it. So for me watching"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1077.95,"endTime":1084.91,"body":"a video is like me spending two"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1084.91,"endTime":1087.88,"body":"hours trying to get through one"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1084.91,"endTime":1087.88,"body":"video, because I will just hit"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1087.88,"endTime":1093.67,"body":"pause and try to do it, and"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1087.88,"endTime":1093.67,"body":"rewind and try it again. So a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1093.67,"endTime":1095.829,"body":"one hour video for me could"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1093.67,"endTime":1095.829,"body":"probably take like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1095.829,"endTime":1098.68,"body":"know, five hours because I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1095.829,"endTime":1098.68,"body":"like to make plays through I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1098.68,"endTime":1102.309,"body":"will just, stop trying to do it."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1098.68,"endTime":1102.309,"body":"Didn't get that. Okay, and then"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1102.309,"endTime":1104.89,"body":"play it again. Try to do it."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1102.309,"endTime":1104.89,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1106.339,"endTime":1107.93,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1106.339,"endTime":1107.93,"body":"that's a really great point."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1108.17,"endTime":1112.19,"body":"Like you just said, a one hour"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1108.17,"endTime":1112.19,"body":"video can take me five hours,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1112.4,"endTime":1115.339,"body":"right? Because sometimes when"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1112.4,"endTime":1115.339,"body":"you're learning something, you"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1115.339,"endTime":1117.38,"body":"think like, Okay, well, I'm"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1115.339,"endTime":1117.38,"body":"gonna sit here for an hour, I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1117.38,"endTime":1121.069,"body":"have an hour. But that's not"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1117.38,"endTime":1121.069,"body":"practical application of what"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1121.069,"endTime":1123.68,"body":"you're learning. And so as"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1121.069,"endTime":1123.68,"body":"you're going through those"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1123.68,"endTime":1126.68,"body":"things, actually doing them,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1123.68,"endTime":1126.68,"body":"it's going to take more time,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1126.68,"endTime":1129.38,"body":"but you're going to learn more"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1126.68,"endTime":1129.38,"body":"in the long run. And so thinking"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1129.38,"endTime":1134.39,"body":"about it like that, in terms of"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1129.38,"endTime":1134.39,"body":"I remember when I was in boot"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1134.39,"endTime":1141.529,"body":"camp, I had maybe complain that"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1134.39,"endTime":1141.529,"body":"it wasn't clear how long each"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1141.529,"endTime":1145.519,"body":"lesson was going to take or"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1141.529,"endTime":1145.519,"body":"exercise. And then somebody"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1145.519,"endTime":1149.119,"body":"responded, and they said, Well,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1145.519,"endTime":1149.119,"body":"you know, part of it is learning"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1149.119,"endTime":1152.96,"body":"how long it is going to take you"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1149.119,"endTime":1152.96,"body":"because it will be different for"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1152.96,"endTime":1156.349,"body":"everyone else. And that was a"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1152.96,"endTime":1156.349,"body":"lesson that didn't really click"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1156.349,"endTime":1159.5,"body":"with me until later. But, you"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1156.349,"endTime":1159.5,"body":"know, depending on where you're"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1159.5,"endTime":1164.45,"body":"at, and how you approach it, and"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1159.5,"endTime":1164.45,"body":"how much you've taken and"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1164.45,"endTime":1167.809,"body":"understood from the previous"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1164.45,"endTime":1167.809,"body":"lessons, it's going to affect"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1167.809,"endTime":1171.079,"body":"how long that thing is going to"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1167.809,"endTime":1171.079,"body":"take you. And don't judge"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1171.23,"endTime":1175.099,"body":"yourself based on how long it"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1171.23,"endTime":1175.099,"body":"takes you judge how much"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1175.099,"endTime":1177.92,"body":"progress you've made and think"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1175.099,"endTime":1177.92,"body":"about like how much you've"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1177.92,"endTime":1181.309,"body":"learned through doing that. It's"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1177.92,"endTime":1181.309,"body":"not it's not a race, right?"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1182.41,"endTime":1187.299,"body":"And something that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1182.41,"endTime":1187.299,"body":"you also realize, too, there are"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1187.299,"endTime":1190.42,"body":"some things that even though"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1187.299,"endTime":1190.42,"body":"you've done it to through the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1190.42,"endTime":1193.809,"body":"video, so you may you know, stop"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1190.42,"endTime":1193.809,"body":"and code it. There's some things"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1193.809,"endTime":1197.859,"body":"that you just can't remember to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1193.809,"endTime":1197.859,"body":"do. Or something that you kind"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1197.859,"endTime":1200.23,"body":"of can't figure out why it's not"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1197.859,"endTime":1200.23,"body":"working but they didn't Realize"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1200.23,"endTime":1203.259,"body":"that you didn't do something or"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1200.23,"endTime":1203.259,"body":"you missed something in the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1203.259,"endTime":1205.539,"body":"code. And then there are other"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1203.259,"endTime":1205.539,"body":"things that you'd have to think"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1205.539,"endTime":1208.24,"body":"about you just type it because"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1205.539,"endTime":1208.24,"body":"it's just there in your brain"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1208.24,"endTime":1210.16,"body":"and some things just don't"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1208.24,"endTime":1210.16,"body":"stick."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1212.929,"endTime":1215.868,"body":"Yeah, yeah. And that's,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1212.929,"endTime":1215.868,"body":"I mean, that's like part of"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1215.868,"endTime":1218.298,"body":"learning how to code, right? You"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1215.868,"endTime":1218.298,"body":"know, and trying to do that,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1218.298,"endTime":1221.388,"body":"while you're watching a video,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1218.298,"endTime":1221.388,"body":"watching it in the middle of an"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1221.388,"endTime":1227.868,"body":"hour long video seems"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1221.388,"endTime":1227.868,"body":"challenging, the best as egghead"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1227.868,"endTime":1233.358,"body":"has their courses. So it's like"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1227.868,"endTime":1233.358,"body":"a course on a topic, but it's a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1233.358,"endTime":1237.199,"body":"series of, you know, of short"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1233.358,"endTime":1237.199,"body":"videos, like you're saying, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1237.199,"endTime":1240.769,"body":"know, and so they have like"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1237.199,"endTime":1240.769,"body":"broken up, you know, built in"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1240.769,"endTime":1242.898,"body":"pauses. So it's like, one,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1240.769,"endTime":1242.898,"body":"you're gonna learn and like a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1242.898,"endTime":1246.828,"body":"large thing, and it's how, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1242.898,"endTime":1246.828,"body":"know, an hour long, an hour's"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1246.828,"endTime":1249.528,"body":"worth of content, but you just"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1246.828,"endTime":1249.528,"body":"see that it's broken up. This is"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1249.528,"endTime":1252.409,"body":"like, a minute and a half"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1249.528,"endTime":1252.409,"body":"chapter or whatever it is,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1252.439,"endTime":1255.078,"body":"whatever they call it, but I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1252.439,"endTime":1255.078,"body":"like the way that they they"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1255.078,"endTime":1258.919,"body":"organize that because they kind"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1255.078,"endTime":1258.919,"body":"of realize that nobody is going"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1258.919,"endTime":1261.888,"body":"to really learn anything"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1258.919,"endTime":1261.888,"body":"sitting, consuming for an hour,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1261.919,"endTime":1266.148,"body":"you know? or not, I shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1261.919,"endTime":1266.148,"body":"say nobody. But you know, it's,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1266.148,"endTime":1268.368,"body":"it's probably challenging for a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1266.148,"endTime":1268.368,"body":"lot of people to do that. Do it"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1268.368,"endTime":1268.699,"body":"that way."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1269.63,"endTime":1271.88,"body":"And then some things"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1269.63,"endTime":1271.88,"body":"you will still have to Google."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1272.119,"endTime":1275.48,"body":"Oh, yeah. Because some things"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1272.119,"endTime":1275.48,"body":"you just can't remember."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1277.579,"endTime":1281.869,"body":"on that, that's also"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1277.579,"endTime":1281.869,"body":"always true. I don't know, I've"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1281.869,"endTime":1284.66,"body":"been you know, I've been a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1281.869,"endTime":1284.66,"body":"developer for for a while now."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1284.66,"endTime":1288.71,"body":"And I google that mean, I google"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1284.66,"endTime":1288.71,"body":"things every, every day as that"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1288.71,"endTime":1291.079,"body":"I don't know, multiple times a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1288.71,"endTime":1291.079,"body":"day, if you know, if I'm going,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1291.799,"endTime":1294.529,"body":"I can't, I can't recover."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1291.799,"endTime":1294.529,"body":"There's one. There's like an"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1294.529,"endTime":1297.529,"body":"array method that just a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1294.529,"endTime":1297.529,"body":"JavaScript thing. That is just"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1297.529,"endTime":1300.38,"body":"like been the same for 100"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1297.529,"endTime":1300.38,"body":"years. And I, I literally just"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1300.38,"endTime":1304.43,"body":"can't remember the order of you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1300.38,"endTime":1304.43,"body":"know how things go in. I look it"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1304.43,"endTime":1306.559,"body":"up every single time. I don't"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1304.43,"endTime":1306.559,"body":"know, I don't know what it is"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1306.619,"endTime":1312.23,"body":"mental block, but that Google is"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1306.619,"endTime":1312.23,"body":"top top developer tool."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1314.599,"endTime":1317.569,"body":"That's,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1314.599,"endTime":1317.569,"body":"I've been writing my blog with"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1317.569,"endTime":1320.42,"body":"markdown for a couple of years"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1317.569,"endTime":1320.42,"body":"now. And I can never remember"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1320.42,"endTime":1323.45,"body":"the right format for the link."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1320.42,"endTime":1323.45,"body":"Like I googled it every single"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1323.45,"endTime":1326.63,"body":"time every years, right, and it"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1323.45,"endTime":1326.63,"body":"just wouldn't stick. And then I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1326.63,"endTime":1329.539,"body":"had tweeted about it. And people"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1326.63,"endTime":1329.539,"body":"like offered me all of these"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1329.539,"endTime":1332.96,"body":"different ways to remember it."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1329.539,"endTime":1332.96,"body":"And finally one of them clicked"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1332.96,"endTime":1337.099,"body":"and now now I don't have to"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1332.96,"endTime":1337.099,"body":"Google it, the brackets, the"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1337.339,"endTime":1340.519,"body":"brackets come first and the"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1337.339,"endTime":1340.519,"body":"parentheses come second, like a"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1340.519,"endTime":1343.43,"body":"function. I think that's what"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1340.519,"endTime":1343.43,"body":"they were kind of saying,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1343.7,"endTime":1347.029,"body":"anyway, doesn't matter. It makes"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1343.7,"endTime":1347.029,"body":"sense to me. And now I don't"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1347.029,"endTime":1353.839,"body":"need to give up. But I did for"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1347.029,"endTime":1353.839,"body":"like two years straight. And I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1353.839,"endTime":1356.18,"body":"think that's kind of part of the"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1353.839,"endTime":1356.18,"body":"other thing, too, right? Like,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1356.21,"endTime":1359.839,"body":"sometimes you'll be presented"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1356.21,"endTime":1359.839,"body":"the information and somebody,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1359.869,"endTime":1361.849,"body":"there will be 12 people that"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1359.869,"endTime":1361.849,"body":"give you a different"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1361.849,"endTime":1365.18,"body":"explanation. And that one"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1361.849,"endTime":1365.18,"body":"explanation will fit. And I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1365.18,"endTime":1369.47,"body":"think there's a tendency for new"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1365.18,"endTime":1369.47,"body":"developers or people who are"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1369.47,"endTime":1373.789,"body":"learning to think about, well, I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1369.47,"endTime":1373.789,"body":"can't get this in this other"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1373.789,"endTime":1377.42,"body":"person got it. And so I must not"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1373.789,"endTime":1377.42,"body":"be good enough for this, right."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1377.809,"endTime":1382.46,"body":"And that's not true. It's just"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1377.809,"endTime":1382.46,"body":"not presented in a way that"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1382.579,"endTime":1386.63,"body":"makes sense to your brain or"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1382.579,"endTime":1386.63,"body":"something that's easily usable."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1386.66,"endTime":1389.329,"body":"But that's why it's great to"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1386.66,"endTime":1389.329,"body":"have so many different people"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1389.329,"endTime":1391.97,"body":"writing blogs or creating"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1389.329,"endTime":1391.97,"body":"content, because there's more"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1392.0,"endTime":1395.21,"body":"options for you to kind of"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1392.0,"endTime":1395.21,"body":"search out and, and figure out"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":1395.21,"endTime":1396.289,"body":"what works for you."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1397.47,"endTime":1401.19,"body":"That took me a while"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1397.47,"endTime":1401.19,"body":"to understand that and took me a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1401.19,"endTime":1406.44,"body":"while to accept to because I was"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1401.19,"endTime":1406.44,"body":"like I sorted it, this should be"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1406.44,"endTime":1408.9,"body":"easy for me. And I kind of"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1406.44,"endTime":1408.9,"body":"thought going into this that it"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1408.9,"endTime":1413.069,"body":"would be so easy because I did a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1408.9,"endTime":1413.069,"body":"degree in it. And when I did my"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1413.069,"endTime":1419.7,"body":"degree I did Java and c++. And"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1413.069,"endTime":1419.7,"body":"granted, I didn't understand a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1419.7,"endTime":1424.89,"body":"thing in Java. Like, I just"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1419.7,"endTime":1424.89,"body":"couldn't get it. I mean that I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1424.89,"endTime":1430.529,"body":"had to get so much help with"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1424.89,"endTime":1430.529,"body":"that course. And I did. c++, did"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1430.529,"endTime":1437.009,"body":"discrete maths and started"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1430.529,"endTime":1437.009,"body":"thinking called I can't remember"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1437.009,"endTime":1439.799,"body":"the name of the other course."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1437.009,"endTime":1439.799,"body":"And I was like, Okay, I managed"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1439.799,"endTime":1443.49,"body":"to get through those granted a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1439.799,"endTime":1443.49,"body":"lot of help because they were"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1443.49,"endTime":1447.48,"body":"just, it wasn't clicking. And my"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1443.49,"endTime":1447.48,"body":"issue was she loved programming."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1447.48,"endTime":1449.609,"body":"Like she's like a hardcore"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1447.48,"endTime":1449.609,"body":"programmer. And she's like, you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1449.609,"endTime":1456.63,"body":"should do this. And you should"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1449.609,"endTime":1456.63,"body":"go to your masters now. But I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1456.63,"endTime":1460.319,"body":"just it just wasn't clicking."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1456.63,"endTime":1460.319,"body":"And when I found out about web"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1460.319,"endTime":1463.68,"body":"development, I was like, Okay,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1460.319,"endTime":1463.68,"body":"this should be easy for me to be"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1463.68,"endTime":1467.549,"body":"able to catch on because I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1463.68,"endTime":1467.549,"body":"started it and I Tinker in it"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1467.549,"endTime":1471.0,"body":"all the time, but it just wasn't"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1467.549,"endTime":1471.0,"body":"clicking. And that kind of"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1471.0,"endTime":1475.529,"body":"starts to feel like, maybe it's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1471.0,"endTime":1475.529,"body":"me. And especially when you see"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1475.529,"endTime":1478.47,"body":"so many other developers out"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1475.529,"endTime":1478.47,"body":"there who've been doing this for"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1478.47,"endTime":1482.7,"body":"five years, 10 years, 20 years,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1478.47,"endTime":1482.7,"body":"and they make everything so"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1482.7,"endTime":1487.529,"body":"easy. You start to feel like"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1482.7,"endTime":1487.529,"body":"okay, maybe you're not just cut"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1487.529,"endTime":1490.44,"body":"up, maybe you're not cut out for"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1487.529,"endTime":1490.44,"body":"it. Maybe you're just this is"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1490.44,"endTime":1497.309,"body":"not for you. And it really took"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1490.44,"endTime":1497.309,"body":"me a while to realize that,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1497.4,"endTime":1500.339,"body":"okay, I'm not the only person"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1497.4,"endTime":1500.339,"body":"who struggles with someone These"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1500.339,"endTime":1505.44,"body":"things like, it's actually not"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1500.339,"endTime":1505.44,"body":"as easy as people make it look,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1505.74,"endTime":1509.4,"body":"for some people, it may click"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1505.74,"endTime":1509.4,"body":"quicker than some, but it's, if"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1509.4,"endTime":1513.839,"body":"it was kind of easy, everybody"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1509.4,"endTime":1513.839,"body":"would do it took me a while to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1513.869,"endTime":1515.22,"body":"get to that place."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1516.109,"endTime":1519.5,"body":"Yeah, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1516.109,"endTime":1519.5,"body":"really important. And I mean,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1519.5,"endTime":1524.089,"body":"I'm glad to have gotten to that"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1519.5,"endTime":1524.089,"body":"realization, because it comes up"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1524.089,"endTime":1528.349,"body":"a lot. And I've been thinking"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1524.089,"endTime":1528.349,"body":"about this, I've been thinking"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1528.349,"endTime":1532.549,"body":"about this recently about how"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1528.349,"endTime":1532.549,"body":"everybody is, I keep saying"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1532.549,"endTime":1535.88,"body":"everybody, but lots of people"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1532.549,"endTime":1535.88,"body":"learn in ways similar to you,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1535.88,"endTime":1541.279,"body":"right? Sort of on their own"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1535.88,"endTime":1541.279,"body":"different courses, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1541.309,"endTime":1544.64,"body":"maybe boot camps or whatever,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1541.309,"endTime":1544.64,"body":"but much different than sort of"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1544.67,"endTime":1549.41,"body":"in school, right. And so, if you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1544.67,"endTime":1549.41,"body":"were going in school, you'd be"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1549.47,"endTime":1553.579,"body":"in a class with other people."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1549.47,"endTime":1553.579,"body":"And you're not following 7000"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1553.579,"endTime":1555.68,"body":"people who are already experts"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1553.579,"endTime":1555.68,"body":"at what you're learning. And so,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1556.279,"endTime":1560.809,"body":"you know, and I've been thinking"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1556.279,"endTime":1560.809,"body":"about how to, like, approach"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1560.809,"endTime":1564.14,"body":"that, right? Because, on one"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1560.809,"endTime":1564.14,"body":"hand, I like following people"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1564.14,"endTime":1569.059,"body":"who are, you know, domain"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1564.14,"endTime":1569.059,"body":"experts in whatever it is I want"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1569.059,"endTime":1571.91,"body":"to learn about, but at the same"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1569.059,"endTime":1571.91,"body":"time, that that sort of"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1571.91,"endTime":1575.45,"body":"pressure, external pressure, and"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1571.91,"endTime":1575.45,"body":"it's not even the it's not even"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1575.45,"endTime":1581.269,"body":"those, anybody's fault, right."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1575.45,"endTime":1581.269,"body":"But once you know, something,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1582.289,"endTime":1586.88,"body":"you probably like to talk about"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1582.289,"endTime":1586.88,"body":"it. Right? But coming from when"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1586.88,"endTime":1589.819,"body":"you don't know it, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1586.88,"endTime":1589.819,"body":"it's just like you're saying, it"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1589.819,"endTime":1592.789,"body":"can seem it can seem like they"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1589.819,"endTime":1592.789,"body":"make it seem easy, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1593.18,"endTime":1596.089,"body":"how to how to approach that like"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1593.18,"endTime":1596.089,"body":"learning process, when you're"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1596.119,"endTime":1600.71,"body":"when you're starting out. How to"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1596.119,"endTime":1600.71,"body":"avoid falling, falling into that"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1600.71,"endTime":1603.019,"body":"trap, you know, of like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1600.71,"endTime":1603.019,"body":"following all those people,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1603.019,"endTime":1605.0,"body":"because you're like, Okay, let's"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1603.019,"endTime":1605.0,"body":"have developers to follow, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1605.0,"endTime":1608.45,"body":"know, like, follow these"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1605.0,"endTime":1608.45,"body":"different, different Twitter"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1608.45,"endTime":1612.619,"body":"accounts, and, or whatever it is"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1608.45,"endTime":1612.619,"body":"blog posts. And meanwhile,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1612.619,"endTime":1615.589,"body":"there's like 1000s and 1000s"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1612.619,"endTime":1615.589,"body":"people in the exact same boat,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1615.619,"endTime":1620.15,"body":"you know, struggling and, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1615.619,"endTime":1620.15,"body":"know, trying to push through"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1620.15,"endTime":1622.4,"body":"everything and trying to figure"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1620.15,"endTime":1622.4,"body":"out what to learn next, and"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1624.829,"endTime":1627.68,"body":"they're not on all the top"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1624.829,"endTime":1627.68,"body":"developers to follow lists, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1627.68,"endTime":1630.619,"body":"know, you know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1627.68,"endTime":1630.619,"body":"It's, I know, it's an"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1630.619,"endTime":1637.73,"body":"interesting problem. And I don't"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1630.619,"endTime":1637.73,"body":"have any solutions or anything,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1637.73,"endTime":1639.95,"body":"but you know, it's an"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1637.73,"endTime":1639.95,"body":"interesting problem to think"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1639.95,"endTime":1646.43,"body":"about. And you're not like, I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1639.95,"endTime":1646.43,"body":"just lots of people we talk to"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1646.43,"endTime":1649.609,"body":"here at Virtual Coffee, on the"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1646.43,"endTime":1649.609,"body":"podcast or in, you know, Virtual"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1649.609,"endTime":1654.319,"body":"Coffee proper, I guess, around"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1649.609,"endTime":1654.319,"body":"the table and then have the same"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1654.319,"endTime":1656.93,"body":"sort of realizations, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1654.319,"endTime":1656.93,"body":"that, like, it's a struggle,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1656.93,"endTime":1659.96,"body":"it's hard. It's hard to learn."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1656.93,"endTime":1659.96,"body":"And it's hard to learn anything"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1659.96,"endTime":1668.269,"body":"new. And I don't know, I have"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1659.96,"endTime":1668.269,"body":"been. Yep, I don't know. That's"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1668.269,"endTime":1671.66,"body":"the end of my thing. I don't"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1668.269,"endTime":1671.66,"body":"have any further, I don't really"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1671.66,"endTime":1674.15,"body":"have a question or a statement,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1671.66,"endTime":1674.15,"body":"you know, but it's a very"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1674.15,"endTime":1675.17,"body":"interesting topic to me."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1676.22,"endTime":1679.789,"body":"It's something that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1676.22,"endTime":1679.789,"body":"I also realized too, like, and"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1679.819,"endTime":1682.88,"body":"honestly, Virtual Coffee is the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1679.819,"endTime":1682.88,"body":"committee that has made me feel"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1682.88,"endTime":1686.21,"body":"more comfortable asking"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1682.88,"endTime":1686.21,"body":"questions. But it is something"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1686.21,"endTime":1690.92,"body":"that I noticed too. You know,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1686.21,"endTime":1690.92,"body":"even on Twitter, right? Even if"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1690.92,"endTime":1693.259,"body":"you decide to ask for some"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1690.92,"endTime":1693.259,"body":"wherever you ask questions,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1693.5,"endTime":1698.39,"body":"especially as a newbie, like, I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1693.5,"endTime":1698.39,"body":"am so good at overwhelming"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1698.39,"endTime":1701.42,"body":"myself with like, all the things"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1698.39,"endTime":1701.42,"body":"to learn all these things. But"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1701.42,"endTime":1705.38,"body":"sometimes when you ask like a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1701.42,"endTime":1705.38,"body":"really a question that you think"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1705.38,"endTime":1709.519,"body":"in your head is really simple."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1705.38,"endTime":1709.519,"body":"And I mean, it's not overly"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1709.519,"endTime":1712.369,"body":"complicated, but it's just, it"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1709.519,"endTime":1712.369,"body":"hasn't clicked for you yet. And"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1712.369,"endTime":1715.759,"body":"you may ask somebody who is an"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1712.369,"endTime":1715.759,"body":"experienced developer, and they"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1715.759,"endTime":1719.539,"body":"give you this really advanced"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1715.759,"endTime":1719.539,"body":"answer. And, you know, you do"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1719.539,"endTime":1721.88,"body":"this and you do this. And this,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1719.539,"endTime":1721.88,"body":"like, I don't even know what"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1721.97,"endTime":1727.13,"body":"that is. And because they have"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1721.97,"endTime":1727.13,"body":"been doing this for a while,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1727.519,"endTime":1732.619,"body":"they kind of don't really know"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1727.519,"endTime":1732.619,"body":"how to explain something in like"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1732.619,"endTime":1736.759,"body":"layman's terms to a beginner"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1732.619,"endTime":1736.759,"body":"where it like it will connect"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1736.789,"endTime":1743.539,"body":"the dots for you. And because I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1736.789,"endTime":1743.539,"body":"even I'm learning it, and I'm,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1743.569,"endTime":1747.74,"body":"like, a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1743.569,"endTime":1747.74,"body":"comfortable with it now. But as"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1747.74,"endTime":1750.559,"body":"asking someone a person about"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1747.74,"endTime":1750.559,"body":"it, and they gave me like, this"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1750.559,"endTime":1753.17,"body":"answer was like, Oh, my god, I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1750.559,"endTime":1753.17,"body":"don't even know what to do with"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1753.17,"endTime":1757.339,"body":"that. So is there any way to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1753.17,"endTime":1757.339,"body":"like, avoid that right now?"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1757.339,"endTime":1759.89,"body":"Because I don't know how to do"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1757.339,"endTime":1759.89,"body":"that. And I'm gonna mess up"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1759.89,"endTime":1765.47,"body":"something if I try it. So it's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1759.89,"endTime":1765.47,"body":"like also realizing for yourself"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1766.819,"endTime":1774.23,"body":"how you learn, and also to not"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1766.819,"endTime":1774.23,"body":"try to grab everything because"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1774.23,"endTime":1778.579,"body":"you need to learn everything. So"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1774.23,"endTime":1778.579,"body":"I like and I mean, even when you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1778.579,"endTime":1782.089,"body":"Google stuff, too, like I said,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1778.579,"endTime":1782.089,"body":"yesterday evening, reading a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1782.089,"endTime":1785.9,"body":"blog post trying to fix"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1782.089,"endTime":1785.9,"body":"something in CSS, and I read the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1785.9,"endTime":1789.019,"body":"article just like, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1785.9,"endTime":1789.019,"body":"five minutes long, and I still"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1789.019,"endTime":1795.109,"body":"didn't understand what to do. So"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1789.019,"endTime":1795.109,"body":"it's it's really, it's a tricky"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1795.109,"endTime":1799.579,"body":"kind of thing. Because some"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1795.109,"endTime":1799.579,"body":"people we don't know how to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1799.609,"endTime":1804.68,"body":"break down the answer on your"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1799.609,"endTime":1804.68,"body":"level because they've been doing"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1804.68,"endTime":1807.17,"body":"it for so long, it's so natural"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1804.68,"endTime":1807.17,"body":"for them. And for you, it's not"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1807.17,"endTime":1812.119,"body":"really natural. So it's, it's,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1807.17,"endTime":1812.119,"body":"it's a tricky, it's a, it's like"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1812.119,"endTime":1813.019,"body":"dicey. It's tricky."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1813.39,"endTime":1817.529,"body":"It is. And it can be,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1813.39,"endTime":1817.529,"body":"it can even be not so much that"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1817.529,"endTime":1821.97,"body":"they don't know how but they"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1817.529,"endTime":1821.97,"body":"haven't. Like, maybe they don't"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1821.97,"endTime":1824.759,"body":"know you, personally very well"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1821.97,"endTime":1824.759,"body":"yet, or they don't know where"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1824.759,"endTime":1827.43,"body":"you are on your journey or any"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1824.759,"endTime":1827.43,"body":"person, you know. So if you're"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1827.43,"endTime":1831.509,"body":"answering a question, it's hard"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1827.43,"endTime":1831.509,"body":"to, like, intuitively calibrate,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1831.509,"endTime":1836.039,"body":"you know, your, your answer, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1831.509,"endTime":1836.039,"body":"know what I mean, for a given"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1836.039,"endTime":1838.41,"body":"person, other than just talking"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1836.039,"endTime":1838.41,"body":"to them, which is what I do,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1838.41,"endTime":1841.619,"body":"like when I'm when I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1838.41,"endTime":1841.619,"body":"starting a pairing session with"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1841.619,"endTime":1845.46,"body":"somebody who I haven't worked"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1841.619,"endTime":1845.46,"body":"with before. Like, if they're,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1845.46,"endTime":1849.299,"body":"if they're trying to solve a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1845.46,"endTime":1849.299,"body":"specific problem, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1849.299,"endTime":1851.819,"body":"first questions I sort of gauge"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1849.299,"endTime":1851.819,"body":"I like, I just try to gauge"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1851.819,"endTime":1855.69,"body":"like, where, you know, what,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1851.819,"endTime":1855.69,"body":"like, where, what things they do"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1855.69,"endTime":1857.369,"body":"know, and what things they"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1855.69,"endTime":1857.369,"body":"don't, so that we can, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1857.369,"endTime":1859.589,"body":"talk in the language that like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1857.369,"endTime":1859.589,"body":"both of us understand, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1859.589,"endTime":1866.46,"body":"because in a couple years, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1859.589,"endTime":1866.46,"body":"know, you're going to be, you're"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1866.46,"endTime":1868.17,"body":"just gonna have all that good"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1866.46,"endTime":1868.17,"body":"stuff under your belt, and"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1868.17,"endTime":1871.559,"body":"you're gonna forget about how"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1868.17,"endTime":1871.559,"body":"hard it was, you know? And then"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1873.539,"endTime":1876.569,"body":"and your answers, if somebody"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1873.539,"endTime":1876.569,"body":"asks the same question, we'll be"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1876.569,"endTime":1879.569,"body":"okay, we'll just do this. And"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1876.569,"endTime":1879.569,"body":"this, you know, and then it's"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1879.569,"endTime":1881.279,"body":"very easy, like, because that's"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1879.569,"endTime":1881.279,"body":"the process that's in your"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1881.279,"endTime":1884.279,"body":"brain, right? So like, Okay, how"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1881.279,"endTime":1884.279,"body":"do I do this? Oh, well, what I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1884.279,"endTime":1889.41,"body":"would what Dan would do is, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1884.279,"endTime":1889.41,"body":"know, x y\u0026z except if I don't"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1889.41,"endTime":1892.769,"body":"have, you know, if the person"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1889.41,"endTime":1892.769,"body":"doesn't know, at what x it means"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1892.769,"endTime":1896.16,"body":"that answer is useless. Right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1892.769,"endTime":1896.16,"body":"So calibrating like, trying to"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1896.16,"endTime":1898.5,"body":"figure out how to how to"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1896.16,"endTime":1898.5,"body":"calibrate those answers is"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1898.5,"endTime":1902.43,"body":"complicated, it doesn't fit"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1898.5,"endTime":1902.43,"body":"everybody, you know? Because if"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1902.43,"endTime":1907.259,"body":"they're answering that good"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1902.43,"endTime":1907.259,"body":"question. I don't know. Like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1907.289,"endTime":1912.75,"body":"like, there are ways, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1907.289,"endTime":1912.75,"body":"you could just write a book on"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1912.75,"endTime":1915.059,"body":"pretty much any question about"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1912.75,"endTime":1915.059,"body":"get, like, you know, what I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1915.059,"endTime":1918.329,"body":"mean? Like, the answer to any"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1915.059,"endTime":1918.329,"body":"question on get, if you get all"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1918.329,"endTime":1922.079,"body":"the way down to it is like very"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1918.329,"endTime":1922.079,"body":"complicated, you know, and, and"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1922.079,"endTime":1924.18,"body":"same with react, and same with"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1922.079,"endTime":1924.18,"body":"JavaScript is all just a bunch"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1924.18,"endTime":1928.89,"body":"of House of Cards of different,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1924.18,"endTime":1928.89,"body":"you know, different pieces of"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1929.039,"endTime":1932.759,"body":"data, you know, and it's just, I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1929.039,"endTime":1932.759,"body":"feel, I feel, it's, it's, I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1932.759,"endTime":1936.089,"body":"feel, I was gonna say feel bad,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1932.759,"endTime":1936.089,"body":"it's not quite right. But like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1936.45,"endTime":1939.509,"body":"I can understand the struggle of"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1936.45,"endTime":1939.509,"body":"trying to learn all this stuff,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1939.72,"endTime":1943.71,"body":"you know, at once, all at once,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1939.72,"endTime":1943.71,"body":"you know, early, because when I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1943.71,"endTime":1948.96,"body":"learned there was none of when I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1943.71,"endTime":1948.96,"body":"was learning HTML and CSS there,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1948.99,"endTime":1955.47,"body":"like, it didn't, it didn't even"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1948.99,"endTime":1955.47,"body":"exist. Yes, exactly. You know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1955.559,"endTime":1958.38,"body":"like, I didn't have to learn"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1955.559,"endTime":1958.38,"body":"git, or version control or"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1958.38,"endTime":1962.4,"body":"whatever, because we were just"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1958.38,"endTime":1962.4,"body":"like cobbling files up to like a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1962.4,"endTime":1965.369,"body":"server, you know, it was bad."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1962.4,"endTime":1965.369,"body":"Like, I'm glad that it exists"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1965.369,"endTime":1968.309,"body":"now. But it's complicated on its"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1965.369,"endTime":1968.309,"body":"own, you know, and it's this"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1968.309,"endTime":1971.64,"body":"whole, this whole thing, I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1968.309,"endTime":1971.64,"body":"always try to tell people to"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1972.69,"endTime":1975.599,"body":"just learn one thing at once,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":1972.69,"endTime":1975.599,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1976.64,"endTime":1980.329,"body":"it's kind of hard to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1976.64,"endTime":1980.329,"body":"like, it's tricky, because like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1980.329,"endTime":1983.809,"body":"on one hand, like in your head,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1980.329,"endTime":1983.809,"body":"you know, you need to focus on"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1983.809,"endTime":1987.559,"body":"one thing. So you can, like be"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1983.809,"endTime":1987.559,"body":"good at something. But at the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1987.559,"endTime":1992.9,"body":"same time, with tech, you kind"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1987.559,"endTime":1992.9,"body":"of have to know how to do one or"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1992.9,"endTime":1996.259,"body":"two things at least. So you can"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1992.9,"endTime":1996.259,"body":"never really be learning one"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1996.259,"endTime":2000.67,"body":"thing alone, at whatever, at one"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":1996.259,"endTime":2000.67,"body":"point in time, you kind of have"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2000.67,"endTime":2004.839,"body":"to know how to do at least two"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2000.67,"endTime":2004.839,"body":"things to go because they are"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2004.869,"endTime":2009.039,"body":"they connect somehow. So it's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2004.869,"endTime":2009.039,"body":"kind of hard to just focus on"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2009.039,"endTime":2013.48,"body":"one thing. So it's, and that's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2009.039,"endTime":2013.48,"body":"why people will get trapped into"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2013.48,"endTime":2016.869,"body":"whole learning to three"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2013.48,"endTime":2016.869,"body":"different languages at the same"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2016.869,"endTime":2020.259,"body":"time. Like, I'm not even trying"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2016.869,"endTime":2020.259,"body":"to learn frameworks yet. Because"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2020.259,"endTime":2023.829,"body":"like, I want to get really good"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2020.259,"endTime":2023.829,"body":"at JavaScript, cuz like, the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2023.829,"endTime":2027.309,"body":"advice that I keep getting is,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2023.829,"endTime":2027.309,"body":"if you get good at JavaScript,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2027.339,"endTime":2030.49,"body":"or you can handle yourself with"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2027.339,"endTime":2030.49,"body":"it, then everything else will"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2030.49,"endTime":2033.009,"body":"come a little bit easier. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2030.49,"endTime":2033.009,"body":"not really worried about"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2033.009,"endTime":2035.95,"body":"frameworks. I kind of already"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2033.009,"endTime":2035.95,"body":"know which framework I want to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2035.95,"endTime":2040.21,"body":"learn first, which is view but"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2035.95,"endTime":2040.21,"body":"looks like down the road. And I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2040.24,"endTime":2042.4,"body":"probably will learn react, of"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2040.24,"endTime":2042.4,"body":"course, because I noticed the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2042.4,"endTime":2045.819,"body":"demand and everything. But"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2042.4,"endTime":2045.819,"body":"people will get caught up in the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2045.849,"endTime":2049.269,"body":"all in the Buddhist framework is"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2045.849,"endTime":2049.269,"body":"hot right now, that is hot right"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2049.269,"endTime":2051.969,"body":"now. And people will be trying"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2049.269,"endTime":2051.969,"body":"to learn two, three at the same"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2051.969,"endTime":2057.25,"body":"time. And then there are really"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2051.969,"endTime":2057.25,"body":"an ad from what I have learned."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2057.28,"endTime":2061.449,"body":"And I'm constantly being told,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2057.28,"endTime":2061.449,"body":"like, get your basics, right."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2061.51,"endTime":2064.809,"body":"And like once you get your"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2061.51,"endTime":2064.809,"body":"foundation set, then everything"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2064.809,"endTime":2068.559,"body":"else will come. And I'm trying"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2064.809,"endTime":2068.559,"body":"to get the foundation set. So"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2069.639,"endTime":2072.76,"body":"but it's really easy to get"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2069.639,"endTime":2072.76,"body":"caught up in the whole, you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2072.76,"endTime":2079.179,"body":"know, hot new thing, and also"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2072.76,"endTime":2079.179,"body":"learning more than one thing at"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2079.329,"endTime":2083.079,"body":"a time because tech changes so"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2079.329,"endTime":2083.079,"body":"quickly, too. So it's kind of a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2083.079,"endTime":2084.25,"body":"tricky balance."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2085.179,"endTime":2087.07,"body":"It is"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2085.179,"endTime":2087.07,"body":"really tricky. And I think what"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2087.07,"endTime":2089.679,"body":"works for one person doesn't"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2087.07,"endTime":2089.679,"body":"work for every person to write,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2089.679,"endTime":2093.429,"body":"like we've been saying. And I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2089.679,"endTime":2093.429,"body":"think, you know, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2093.489,"endTime":2097.03,"body":"jumping into a framework might"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2093.489,"endTime":2097.03,"body":"be the way to go and like not"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2097.03,"endTime":2100.21,"body":"mastering all those things. I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2097.03,"endTime":2100.21,"body":"know I think it was when I Went"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2100.21,"endTime":2105.13,"body":"from Ruby to rails. Ruby, like I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2100.21,"endTime":2105.13,"body":"was kind of getting it. And but"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2105.13,"endTime":2108.94,"body":"then I hit rails. And I was"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2105.13,"endTime":2108.94,"body":"like, oh, okay, now suddenly,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2108.94,"endTime":2113.23,"body":"this makes sense. And I'm not"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2108.94,"endTime":2113.23,"body":"sure what made it click, but"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2113.23,"endTime":2116.889,"body":"jumping into the framework"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2113.23,"endTime":2116.889,"body":"helped me to understand things a"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2116.889,"endTime":2121.75,"body":"lot better than I had before."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2116.889,"endTime":2121.75,"body":"And so it was, you know, kind of"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2121.75,"endTime":2124.9,"body":"this backwards way of doing"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2121.75,"endTime":2124.9,"body":"things, but hearing other people"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2124.9,"endTime":2128.65,"body":"say like, Oh, yeah, I've done"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2124.9,"endTime":2128.65,"body":"that, too. There weren't as many"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2128.65,"endTime":2131.38,"body":"people saying that there were a"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2128.65,"endTime":2131.38,"body":"lot of people saying that's not"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2131.38,"endTime":2134.769,"body":"the right way to go. But it"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2131.38,"endTime":2134.769,"body":"there's not a right way and a"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2134.769,"endTime":2139.389,"body":"wrong way. There's the way that"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2134.769,"endTime":2139.389,"body":"works for you. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2139.389,"endTime":2142.389,"body":"it's great to be able to"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2139.389,"endTime":2142.389,"body":"recognize what those things are."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2144.88,"endTime":2149.98,"body":"Yeah. No, deprecate. I know,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2144.88,"endTime":2149.98,"body":"like learning on your own, I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2150.039,"endTime":2153.76,"body":"went to a boot camp. And I feel"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2150.039,"endTime":2153.76,"body":"like that was challenging. I was"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2153.76,"endTime":2157.539,"body":"online, and I didn't have a"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2153.76,"endTime":2157.539,"body":"sense of community. But I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2157.539,"endTime":2162.07,"body":"learning on your own is maybe"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2157.539,"endTime":2162.07,"body":"extra challenging, because you"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2162.07,"endTime":2167.26,"body":"are trying to like, find good"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2162.07,"endTime":2167.26,"body":"resources, and maybe find"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2167.26,"endTime":2171.039,"body":"communities. So I, you know, can"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2167.26,"endTime":2171.039,"body":"you talk a little bit about what"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2171.19,"endTime":2173.139,"body":"has been most challenging for"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2171.19,"endTime":2173.139,"body":"you?"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2174.949,"endTime":2179.36,"body":"Yeah, so I have been"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2174.949,"endTime":2179.36,"body":"like trying to learn on my own"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2179.36,"endTime":2182.96,"body":"well this year would make it two"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2179.36,"endTime":2182.96,"body":"years. But they found that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2182.96,"endTime":2188.69,"body":"before I found Virtual Coffee, I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2182.96,"endTime":2188.69,"body":"was, I started to like, do a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2188.69,"endTime":2193.519,"body":"little rabbit hole research. But"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2188.69,"endTime":2193.519,"body":"I was just like, trying to look"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2193.519,"endTime":2197.96,"body":"at too many things at once. And"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2193.519,"endTime":2197.96,"body":"I never had any one of I could"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2197.96,"endTime":2202.699,"body":"ask questions. And I was just"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2197.96,"endTime":2202.699,"body":"struggling because I would, I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2202.699,"endTime":2208.639,"body":"was going through one free boot"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2202.699,"endTime":2208.639,"body":"camp. And I was even trying to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2208.639,"endTime":2213.53,"body":"do the 100 days of code thing."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2208.639,"endTime":2213.53,"body":"And if I missed the day, I would"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2213.53,"endTime":2218.78,"body":"just be like, okay, I messed up,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2213.53,"endTime":2218.78,"body":"I'm gonna start over because I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2218.78,"endTime":2224.48,"body":"wasn't really consistent. And I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2218.78,"endTime":2224.48,"body":"wasn't really focused. And I had"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2224.48,"endTime":2227.599,"body":"no way to talk to about what I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2224.48,"endTime":2227.599,"body":"was struggling with. So it was"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2227.599,"endTime":2231.71,"body":"just difficult. So I would start"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2227.599,"endTime":2231.71,"body":"and stop and start and stop. And"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2231.71,"endTime":2235.849,"body":"if I did good for a week, and I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2231.71,"endTime":2235.849,"body":"missed two days, because I just"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2236.96,"endTime":2239.84,"body":"was too burnt out to do it. I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2236.96,"endTime":2239.84,"body":"was like, Okay, let's start"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2239.84,"endTime":2244.849,"body":"over. No, because I kind of"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2239.84,"endTime":2244.849,"body":"messed it up and had no way to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2244.849,"endTime":2247.67,"body":"keep me accountable as couldn't"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2244.849,"endTime":2247.67,"body":"ask the questions, I will be"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2247.67,"endTime":2250.82,"body":"like, going through the bootcamp"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2247.67,"endTime":2250.82,"body":"didn't understand what I was"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2250.82,"endTime":2255.829,"body":"doing, and had nobody to ask and"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2250.82,"endTime":2255.829,"body":"felt like, okay, it's not for"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2255.829,"endTime":2258.949,"body":"me, because it's not clicking,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2255.829,"endTime":2258.949,"body":"why is it not clicking? Now get"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2258.949,"endTime":2262.28,"body":"frustrated, and the frustration"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2258.949,"endTime":2262.28,"body":"would just cause me to be like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2263.659,"endTime":2268.489,"body":"okay, it's not working. And then"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2263.659,"endTime":2268.489,"body":"when I would see like, someone"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2268.489,"endTime":2272.179,"body":"tweet, like, Hey, I'm struggling"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2268.489,"endTime":2272.179,"body":"with this. And I'm like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2272.179,"endTime":2277.4,"body":"it's not me alone. So maybe I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2272.179,"endTime":2277.4,"body":"should try again. And then I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2277.4,"endTime":2279.829,"body":"will try again, then get"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2277.4,"endTime":2279.829,"body":"frustrated at some point and"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2279.829,"endTime":2284.57,"body":"stop again. So that was really"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2279.829,"endTime":2284.57,"body":"like actually actively looking"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2284.57,"endTime":2290.09,"body":"for a community that I felt"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2284.57,"endTime":2290.09,"body":"comfortable in. And when I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2290.09,"endTime":2294.079,"body":"finally found Virtual Coffee,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2290.09,"endTime":2294.079,"body":"and I was like, Oh, my god. But"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2294.11,"endTime":2297.079,"body":"it really took me a while"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2294.11,"endTime":2297.079,"body":"because studying on your own"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2297.079,"endTime":2304.19,"body":"like, on one hand, self paced,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2297.079,"endTime":2304.19,"body":"boot camps are great. But if you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2304.19,"endTime":2310.07,"body":"have no one who is in it with"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2304.19,"endTime":2310.07,"body":"you, and you have no one to ask"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2310.07,"endTime":2315.289,"body":"questions, or be like, Hey, I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2310.07,"endTime":2315.289,"body":"not getting this is it me. And"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2315.289,"endTime":2318.619,"body":"for someone to tell you that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2315.289,"endTime":2318.619,"body":"it's not you, it's actually"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2318.619,"endTime":2322.13,"body":"normal to struggle through this"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2318.619,"endTime":2322.13,"body":"process. And it's like a long"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2322.13,"endTime":2326.239,"body":"journey. Like, I have no problem"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2322.13,"endTime":2326.239,"body":"with learning forever because I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2326.57,"endTime":2330.019,"body":"constant learner. So I have no"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2326.57,"endTime":2330.019,"body":"problem learning forever. Like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2330.019,"endTime":2334.34,"body":"that's my thing. But when you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2330.019,"endTime":2334.34,"body":"have when you know that there"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2334.34,"endTime":2337.849,"body":"are people who are also"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2334.34,"endTime":2337.849,"body":"struggling, and can help you to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2337.849,"endTime":2341.449,"body":"get through those rough patches,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2337.849,"endTime":2341.449,"body":"and encourage you, it is not"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2341.449,"endTime":2345.289,"body":"you, you're going to get it."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2341.449,"endTime":2345.289,"body":"It's okay. It's not getting it"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2345.289,"endTime":2350.329,"body":"today, but you will get it Don't"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2345.289,"endTime":2350.329,"body":"worry about it. And to kind of"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2350.329,"endTime":2354.139,"body":"talk you out of procrastinating"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2350.329,"endTime":2354.139,"body":"and talk to you all itself,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2354.469,"endTime":2358.94,"body":"talking yourself, although"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2354.469,"endTime":2358.94,"body":"stuff. That's a great thing took"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2358.94,"endTime":2363.139,"body":"me a while to find that space."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2358.94,"endTime":2363.139,"body":"But that was me that I was just"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2363.139,"endTime":2369.44,"body":"like, up and down, up and down."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2363.139,"endTime":2369.44,"body":"Start today start next week,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2369.619,"endTime":2376.039,"body":"frustrated, okay? I have no one"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2369.619,"endTime":2376.039,"body":"to talk to about it. And more so"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2376.039,"endTime":2381.38,"body":"me it's not really you, it's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2376.039,"endTime":2381.38,"body":"normal and you won't get it in a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2381.38,"endTime":2385.219,"body":"month. You won't get it in a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2381.38,"endTime":2385.219,"body":"day. So it was that was really"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2385.219,"endTime":2388.159,"body":"instrumental for me because I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2385.219,"endTime":2388.159,"body":"when you study on your own, it's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2388.159,"endTime":2392.9,"body":"just not. And we don't really"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2388.159,"endTime":2392.9,"body":"even even without the pandemic"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2392.9,"endTime":2396.769,"body":"like I don't really have anyone"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2392.9,"endTime":2396.769,"body":"who like is like really Intertek"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2396.769,"endTime":2400.55,"body":"or wants to learn this thing. So"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2396.769,"endTime":2400.55,"body":"to find a community where You"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2400.639,"endTime":2405.289,"body":"people have the same interest as"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2400.639,"endTime":2405.289,"body":"you. And they actually went"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2405.289,"endTime":2407.239,"body":"through it. So they kind of know"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2405.289,"endTime":2407.239,"body":"what you're struggling with and"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2407.239,"endTime":2412.28,"body":"understand like, hey, this was"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2407.239,"endTime":2412.28,"body":"shiny for me too. Or maybe you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2412.28,"endTime":2415.369,"body":"could think about it this way,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2412.28,"endTime":2415.369,"body":"like some suggestions, anything,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2415.369,"endTime":2420.65,"body":"but just something to help you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2415.369,"endTime":2420.65,"body":"realize that it's, it's normal"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2420.65,"endTime":2423.889,"body":"for you to struggle through this"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2420.65,"endTime":2423.889,"body":"because the learning curve is"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2424.219,"endTime":2427.73,"body":"steep, and you're not going to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2424.219,"endTime":2427.73,"body":"get it overnight."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2428.989,"endTime":2430.25,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2428.989,"endTime":2430.25,"body":"like That's it. That's it,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2430.25,"endTime":2433.219,"body":"right? It's normal for you to"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2430.25,"endTime":2433.219,"body":"struggle through this because"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2433.219,"endTime":2435.829,"body":"there's so much I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2433.219,"endTime":2435.829,"body":"I would call it imposter"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2435.829,"endTime":2439.28,"body":"syndrome or whatever. doubts"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2435.829,"endTime":2439.28,"body":"that comes when you're like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2439.28,"endTime":2442.19,"body":"struggling, that must mean I'm"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2439.28,"endTime":2442.19,"body":"not good at this, or I'm not"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2442.4,"endTime":2445.369,"body":"meant to do this. And that's not"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2442.4,"endTime":2445.369,"body":"true at all. Right? we all"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2445.369,"endTime":2447.619,"body":"struggle through it, or most of"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2445.369,"endTime":2447.619,"body":"us."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2446.88,"endTime":2451.71,"body":"That's exactly it,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2446.88,"endTime":2451.71,"body":"like the imposter syndrome is is"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2451.71,"endTime":2455.219,"body":"real. Like, I know, people talk"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2451.71,"endTime":2455.219,"body":"about this, I know that there's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2455.219,"endTime":2458.969,"body":"so many articles I have read"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2455.219,"endTime":2458.969,"body":"them, I have watched the videos,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2459.0,"endTime":2464.94,"body":"but when you're trying to learn"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2459.0,"endTime":2464.94,"body":"something, and when you're like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2464.969,"endTime":2469.349,"body":"why is it not easy for me? Or as"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2464.969,"endTime":2469.349,"body":"easy for me? Or why is it that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2469.349,"endTime":2473.789,"body":"this person like gets it and I'm"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2469.349,"endTime":2473.789,"body":"not getting it, the imposter"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2473.789,"endTime":2477.929,"body":"syndrome will be like, it will"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2473.789,"endTime":2477.929,"body":"tell you stuff that it will"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2477.929,"endTime":2481.05,"body":"really make you procrastinate."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2477.929,"endTime":2481.05,"body":"And I spent a lot of time"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2481.05,"endTime":2484.44,"body":"procrastinating too, because I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2481.05,"endTime":2484.44,"body":"just like I'm not getting it. So"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2485.28,"endTime":2488.429,"body":"it's me, I'm not getting it. And"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2485.28,"endTime":2488.429,"body":"then we're taught myself how to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2488.429,"endTime":2493.65,"body":"stop because this like, it's not"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2488.429,"endTime":2493.65,"body":"for me, it's not cooking. So"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2493.98,"endTime":2498.15,"body":"maybe I'm not cut out for this."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2493.98,"endTime":2498.15,"body":"So imposter syndrome is so real."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2498.179,"endTime":2503.88,"body":"And like, I know, maybe even"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2498.179,"endTime":2503.88,"body":"last year, developers may think"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2503.909,"endTime":2507.36,"body":"Oh, these your developers talk"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2503.909,"endTime":2507.36,"body":"about imposter syndrome, they"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2507.36,"endTime":2510.36,"body":"didn't know that I still have"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2507.36,"endTime":2510.36,"body":"it. Or maybe as a senior, you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2510.36,"endTime":2514.349,"body":"may not have it as much because"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2510.36,"endTime":2514.349,"body":"you have some experience. But as"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2514.349,"endTime":2520.05,"body":"a junior with where and how tech"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2514.349,"endTime":2520.05,"body":"is now 2021, a lot of things"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2520.05,"endTime":2523.889,"body":"have changed. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2520.05,"endTime":2523.889,"body":"tools and all these things will"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2523.889,"endTime":2527.489,"body":"always be coming Oh, but when"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2523.889,"endTime":2527.489,"body":"you're just starting to learn"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2527.489,"endTime":2533.82,"body":"something, and you have to try"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2527.489,"endTime":2533.82,"body":"to get up to par with where the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2533.82,"endTime":2539.76,"body":"text base is today. And you have"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2533.82,"endTime":2539.76,"body":"such a long way to go. Seniors"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2539.76,"endTime":2543.599,"body":"don't really think because they"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2539.76,"endTime":2543.599,"body":"have already passed that stage."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2543.599,"endTime":2547.98,"body":"And I really understand that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2543.599,"endTime":2547.98,"body":"imposter syndrome for a junior"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2548.34,"endTime":2553.079,"body":"s probably even more than wh t"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2548.34,"endTime":2553.079,"body":"they feel now, because they"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2553.079,"endTime":2557.13,"body":"ve been doing it for 5-10 years"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2553.079,"endTime":2557.13,"body":"So you know, you can have an"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2557.13,"endTime":2559.949,"body":"dea of what you're doing. You k"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2557.13,"endTime":2559.949,"body":"ow, you don't know everything,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2559.949,"endTime":2562.769,"body":"but you kind of know what yo 're"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2559.949,"endTime":2562.769,"body":"doing to a point. But a ju"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2562.769,"endTime":2567.15,"body":"ior who has no clue what the 're"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2562.769,"endTime":2567.15,"body":"doing, has like 1000 times"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2567.15,"endTime":2570.179,"body":"the imposter syndrome, becaus we"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2567.15,"endTime":2570.179,"body":"don't know what we're do"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2572.289,"endTime":2574.599,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2572.289,"endTime":2574.599,"body":"that senior devs are just better"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2574.599,"endTime":2577.9,"body":"at hiding their imposter"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2574.599,"endTime":2577.9,"body":"syndrome. And like over the last"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2577.9,"endTime":2582.34,"body":"year, I have been surprised at"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2577.9,"endTime":2582.34,"body":"so many of our members who I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2582.34,"endTime":2585.94,"body":"would have expected to be super"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2582.34,"endTime":2585.94,"body":"confident in things say that"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2585.94,"endTime":2589.3,"body":"they're nervous about doing it,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2585.94,"endTime":2589.3,"body":"or they don't know if they're"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2589.3,"endTime":2593.679,"body":"good enough to be doing this"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2589.3,"endTime":2593.679,"body":"thing. And that was so eye"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2593.679,"endTime":2596.769,"body":"opening for me because I thought"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2593.679,"endTime":2596.769,"body":"like, wow, you know, they're"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2596.769,"endTime":2600.909,"body":"here. They're doing great."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2596.769,"endTime":2600.909,"body":"They've had this amazing career."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2601.15,"endTime":2605.65,"body":"But it was it was just like"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2601.15,"endTime":2605.65,"body":"this, this hidden thing, where I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2605.65,"endTime":2609.82,"body":"think people on this journey"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2605.65,"endTime":2609.82,"body":"where a lot of us are openly"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2609.82,"endTime":2612.579,"body":"talking about it, which is"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2609.82,"endTime":2612.579,"body":"great. And I think that that"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2612.579,"endTime":2617.53,"body":"should happen more. But it's"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2612.579,"endTime":2617.53,"body":"been, you know, like we're all"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2617.53,"endTime":2621.4,"body":"here in tech grows and moves so"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2617.53,"endTime":2621.4,"body":"quickly that it makes sense that"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2621.4,"endTime":2624.639,"body":"we frequently don't feel like we"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2621.4,"endTime":2624.639,"body":"know what we're doing. Because"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2624.699,"endTime":2625.96,"body":"we can't it just keeps moving."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2627.489,"endTime":2632.199,"body":"Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2627.489,"endTime":2632.199,"body":"don't know, it's one of those"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2632.199,"endTime":2638.949,"body":"things where it for me, I it"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2632.199,"endTime":2638.949,"body":"makes sense that a person would"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2638.949,"endTime":2641.26,"body":"struggle with learning, like"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2638.949,"endTime":2641.26,"body":"learning to be a developer,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2641.53,"endTime":2646.84,"body":"like, for the first time,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2641.53,"endTime":2646.84,"body":"because I can't remember if I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2646.84,"endTime":2649.929,"body":"can actually remember it being"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2646.84,"endTime":2649.929,"body":"very hard. You know, it's hard."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2650.949,"endTime":2657.219,"body":"And I think, as somebody who"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2650.949,"endTime":2657.219,"body":"like in a senior developer role"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2657.219,"endTime":2662.11,"body":"I, it's the imposter syndrome"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2657.219,"endTime":2662.11,"body":"rears its head all the time, but"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2664.3,"endTime":2666.699,"body":"sort of different, right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2664.3,"endTime":2666.699,"body":"Because, like, not different."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2667.449,"endTime":2670.03,"body":"It's in different spots, right?"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2667.449,"endTime":2670.03,"body":"Because I do like, I'm not like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2671.23,"endTime":2674.32,"body":"it's more like, Okay, well, what"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2671.23,"endTime":2674.32,"body":"if, I don't know, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2674.32,"endTime":2676.03,"body":"how to phrase this. Like, what"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2674.32,"endTime":2676.03,"body":"if everybody finds out, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2676.03,"endTime":2682.0,"body":"know, like, that's the thing,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2676.03,"endTime":2682.0,"body":"you know, like, it's, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2682.0,"endTime":2683.98,"body":"finding trying to find a job for"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2682.0,"endTime":2683.98,"body":"the first time and I'm not"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2683.98,"endTime":2688.809,"body":"trying to, like learn this whole"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2683.98,"endTime":2688.809,"body":"new thing, you know, but so"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2688.809,"endTime":2691.9,"body":"it's, I don't know, if it's"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2688.809,"endTime":2691.9,"body":"like, just not as sharply like"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2691.9,"endTime":2693.82,"body":"you were saying, like, maybe"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2691.9,"endTime":2693.82,"body":"when you're learning for the"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2693.82,"endTime":2696.309,"body":"first time it's, it happens more"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2693.82,"endTime":2696.309,"body":"often or something and that"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2696.309,"endTime":2700.179,"body":"might be true, you know? Right."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2696.309,"endTime":2700.179,"body":"Right. Right. But yeah, You"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2700.179,"endTime":2704.44,"body":"know, and I feel like once"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2700.179,"endTime":2704.44,"body":"you're there, and also back to"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2704.44,"endTime":2709.36,"body":"what you said, we never like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2704.44,"endTime":2709.36,"body":"it's it's the this sort of"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2709.389,"endTime":2712.059,"body":"feeling, I feel like once you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2709.389,"endTime":2712.059,"body":"are more experienced, like, once"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2712.059,"endTime":2716.949,"body":"you've been doing I think for a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2712.059,"endTime":2716.949,"body":"long time is a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2716.949,"endTime":2720.039,"body":"under the surface, even under"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2716.949,"endTime":2720.039,"body":"your own like, like"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2720.039,"endTime":2725.05,"body":"subconscious, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2720.039,"endTime":2725.05,"body":"sometimes I'm like, I don't have"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2725.05,"endTime":2730.659,"body":"imposter syndrome, I just"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2725.05,"endTime":2730.659,"body":"embedded This is like what I say"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2730.659,"endTime":2733.389,"body":"to myself, like, oh, wait a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2730.659,"endTime":2733.389,"body":"minute, that's, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2733.389,"endTime":2736.15,"body":"those are like feelings that I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2733.389,"endTime":2736.15,"body":"have. Often even, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2736.659,"endTime":2739.239,"body":"like, trying to push through"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2736.659,"endTime":2739.239,"body":"these things, it still happens."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2739.929,"endTime":2742.42,"body":"I think it happens to a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2739.929,"endTime":2742.42,"body":"people. And you know, some"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2742.42,"endTime":2745.539,"body":"people don't talk about it, some"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2742.42,"endTime":2745.539,"body":"people don't realize that it is"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2745.539,"endTime":2750.219,"body":"happening or you know. And then"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2745.539,"endTime":2750.219,"body":"and then some people do talk"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":2750.219,"endTime":2750.82,"body":"about it, but--"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2752.349,"endTime":2757.329,"body":"And then too, sorry,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2752.349,"endTime":2757.329,"body":"and then also, as a junior, I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2757.329,"endTime":2761.23,"body":"guess, because while you have"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2757.329,"endTime":2761.23,"body":"some senior developers who are"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2761.23,"endTime":2763.809,"body":"more open about talking about"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2761.23,"endTime":2763.809,"body":"the imposter syndrome, and then"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2763.809,"endTime":2766.69,"body":"there are others who, you know,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2763.809,"endTime":2766.69,"body":"you don't really see that, you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2766.69,"endTime":2770.079,"body":"know, they cannot make it look"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2766.69,"endTime":2770.079,"body":"like Oh, I'm so good at this not"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2770.079,"endTime":2774.579,"body":"been doing this for 20 years."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2770.079,"endTime":2774.579,"body":"But as a junior, because we"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2774.579,"endTime":2779.38,"body":"don't really see seniors talk"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2774.579,"endTime":2779.38,"body":"about that they haven't pursued"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2779.38,"endTime":2784.84,"body":"and we think, you know, they're"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2779.38,"endTime":2784.84,"body":"so good at this, like, they know"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2784.84,"endTime":2788.8,"body":"it, because they've been doing"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2784.84,"endTime":2788.8,"body":"this for so long. So we're like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2789.61,"endTime":2795.46,"body":"when are we ever going to feel"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2789.61,"endTime":2795.46,"body":"comfortable knowing enough? and"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2795.46,"endTime":2798.909,"body":"be able to show that we know"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2795.46,"endTime":2798.909,"body":"enough? Because and like no"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2798.909,"endTime":2802.57,"body":"enough is like a relative of"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2798.909,"endTime":2802.57,"body":"course, because you know, this"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2802.57,"endTime":2806.44,"body":"space is like so crazy, where"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2802.57,"endTime":2806.44,"body":"you know, there are always new"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2806.44,"endTime":2810.639,"body":"things to learn. And I love"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2806.44,"endTime":2810.639,"body":"that. But also, it's almost"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2810.639,"endTime":2816.55,"body":"like, from a newbie you you kind"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2810.639,"endTime":2816.55,"body":"of feel like, when will I apart"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2816.55,"endTime":2819.039,"body":"from trying to actually learn"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2816.55,"endTime":2819.039,"body":"the things? I'm going to do it?"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2819.429,"endTime":2825.25,"body":"It's almost like, when will I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2819.429,"endTime":2825.25,"body":"ever feel like I know enough?"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2825.28,"endTime":2830.53,"body":"And how can I show someone, you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2825.28,"endTime":2830.53,"body":"know, a company, a contractor,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2830.53,"endTime":2835.539,"body":"whatever, that I know enough to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2830.53,"endTime":2835.539,"body":"do this. And because we don't"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2835.539,"endTime":2841.21,"body":"really see the senior developers"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2835.539,"endTime":2841.21,"body":"openly showing that, hey, you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2841.21,"endTime":2845.5,"body":"kind of won't know everything,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2841.21,"endTime":2845.5,"body":"and it's okay. And you may see"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2845.5,"endTime":2850.96,"body":"me here 20 years later, but I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2845.5,"endTime":2850.96,"body":"was at the same point you were"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2850.989,"endTime":2854.349,"body":"and when I started, things were"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2850.989,"endTime":2854.349,"body":"much different. Things have"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2854.349,"endTime":2858.639,"body":"changed a lot now. So it's okay,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2854.349,"endTime":2858.639,"body":"you will get there. And you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2858.639,"endTime":2865.329,"body":"don't have to try to get to my"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2858.639,"endTime":2865.329,"body":"20 year veteran, but just get"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2865.63,"endTime":2870.579,"body":"comfortable with enough things"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2865.63,"endTime":2870.579,"body":"that you can do whatever you're"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2870.579,"endTime":2873.429,"body":"required to do, or you know how"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2870.579,"endTime":2873.429,"body":"to go about learning how to do"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2873.429,"endTime":2874.96,"body":"it? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2874.989,"endTime":2878.829,"body":"I think we"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2874.989,"endTime":2878.829,"body":"were just in the book club"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2878.829,"endTime":2882.309,"body":"meeting. And somebody there has"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2878.829,"endTime":2882.309,"body":"been a developer for 15 years."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2882.309,"endTime":2884.619,"body":"But as a freelance developer,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2882.309,"endTime":2884.619,"body":"and one of the things they were"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2884.619,"endTime":2887.889,"body":"talking about was, they don't"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2884.619,"endTime":2887.889,"body":"have feedback from anyone,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2887.889,"endTime":2891.46,"body":"because they take on freelance"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2887.889,"endTime":2891.46,"body":"clients. And so they don't ever"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2891.46,"endTime":2894.849,"body":"really know how they're doing"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2891.46,"endTime":2894.849,"body":"right. And I think that's also"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2894.849,"endTime":2898.539,"body":"plays into this role of"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2894.849,"endTime":2898.539,"body":"learning, especially on your"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2898.57,"endTime":2902.199,"body":"own, or in a place where you're"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2898.57,"endTime":2902.199,"body":"not getting feedback from people"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2902.199,"endTime":2906.46,"body":"because you are kind of your own"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2902.199,"endTime":2906.46,"body":"reference point. And you're you"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2906.46,"endTime":2909.039,"body":"are looking like Dan was saying,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2906.46,"endTime":2909.039,"body":"you follow all these people on"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2909.039,"endTime":2912.01,"body":"Twitter, right, who have been"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2909.039,"endTime":2912.01,"body":"doing this for years. And so"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2912.01,"endTime":2914.98,"body":"then it becomes you and these"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2912.01,"endTime":2914.98,"body":"people that you're looking at,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2915.219,"endTime":2919.059,"body":"and you have no one to kind of"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2915.219,"endTime":2919.059,"body":"look at what you're doing and"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2919.059,"endTime":2922.48,"body":"say like, Look, you're doing a"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2919.059,"endTime":2922.48,"body":"great job. And this is amazing."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2922.48,"endTime":2925.269,"body":"And hey, I didn't know that"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2922.48,"endTime":2925.269,"body":"thing. And I've been doing it"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2925.269,"endTime":2930.46,"body":"this long rate. And so that lack"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2925.269,"endTime":2930.46,"body":"of community response or"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2930.46,"endTime":2935.409,"body":"feedback can be really"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2930.46,"endTime":2935.409,"body":"challenging to gauge where you"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":2935.44,"endTime":2936.01,"body":"are."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2937.329,"endTime":2941.409,"body":"Yeah, yeah. And they"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2937.329,"endTime":2941.409,"body":"did to me a while to like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2941.92,"endTime":2944.92,"body":"connect those dots too. Because"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2941.92,"endTime":2944.92,"body":"when you're learning on your"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2944.92,"endTime":2950.019,"body":"own, you really don't have"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2944.92,"endTime":2950.019,"body":"anyone to bypass ideas have to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2950.05,"endTime":2953.559,"body":"be like, Hey, I don't know what"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2950.05,"endTime":2953.559,"body":"this means. Can you walk me"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2953.559,"endTime":2959.889,"body":"through this? And also, as a new"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2953.559,"endTime":2959.889,"body":"person, one of the things that I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2960.07,"endTime":2964.21,"body":"learned the hard way is asking"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2960.07,"endTime":2964.21,"body":"for help. Because you don't want"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2964.21,"endTime":2966.579,"body":"to look like I mean, you don't"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2964.21,"endTime":2966.579,"body":"know what you're doing. But you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2966.579,"endTime":2968.65,"body":"kind of don't want anyone to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2966.579,"endTime":2968.65,"body":"know that you don't know what"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2968.65,"endTime":2973.869,"body":"you're doing. So it took me a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2968.65,"endTime":2973.869,"body":"while to ask questions. And"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2974.65,"endTime":2978.489,"body":"sometimes it's also a case of"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2974.65,"endTime":2978.489,"body":"finding the right people to ask"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2978.489,"endTime":2981.369,"body":"those questions, because not"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2978.489,"endTime":2981.369,"body":"everyone will be willing to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2981.369,"endTime":2984.82,"body":"assist you. But find the right"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2981.369,"endTime":2984.82,"body":"people who are willing to help"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2985.57,"endTime":2988.48,"body":"and would actually encourage you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2985.57,"endTime":2988.48,"body":"to ask questions. That was a big"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2988.48,"endTime":2992.65,"body":"thing for me because I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2988.48,"endTime":2992.65,"body":"like to ask for help. It kind of"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2992.65,"endTime":2996.88,"body":"sounds weird, but you don't want"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2992.65,"endTime":2996.88,"body":"to seem like you have no clue"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2996.88,"endTime":3000.539,"body":"what you're doing. But you also"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":2996.88,"endTime":3000.539,"body":"what I've learned is that It is"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3000.539,"endTime":3005.699,"body":"better to ask questions than to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3000.539,"endTime":3005.699,"body":"sit there and struggle and you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3005.699,"endTime":3007.65,"body":"know, doing the wrong thing, and"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3005.699,"endTime":3007.65,"body":"you have no idea that you're"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3007.65,"endTime":3011.4,"body":"doing the wrong thing, or you're"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3007.65,"endTime":3011.4,"body":"going about it the wrong way. So"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3011.4,"endTime":3016.019,"body":"asking for help is really"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3011.4,"endTime":3016.019,"body":"important. And when you find a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3016.019,"endTime":3019.53,"body":"great community that you can ask"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3016.019,"endTime":3019.53,"body":"for help, or the person that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3019.53,"endTime":3023.219,"body":"that you know, who is willing to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3019.53,"endTime":3023.219,"body":"assist you. And they will"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3023.219,"endTime":3027.09,"body":"actually walk you through"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3023.219,"endTime":3027.09,"body":"something, you realize, Oh, so I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3027.09,"endTime":3031.8,"body":"kind of got a but I just went"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3027.09,"endTime":3031.8,"body":"wrong, right here. Or I could"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3031.8,"endTime":3035.67,"body":"think about it this way. So"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3031.8,"endTime":3035.67,"body":"asking practice are really is a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3035.67,"endTime":3039.96,"body":"really big thing. But new people"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3035.67,"endTime":3039.96,"body":"are suppose as newbies, we don't"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3039.96,"endTime":3044.489,"body":"like to ask for help, because we"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3039.96,"endTime":3044.489,"body":"just don't want to look like we"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3044.489,"endTime":3047.07,"body":"have no clue what we're doing."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3044.489,"endTime":3047.07,"body":"We don't but we don't want"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3047.07,"endTime":3051.269,"body":"anyone to know that. So, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3047.07,"endTime":3051.269,"body":"that's my focus really, really a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3051.269,"endTime":3051.989,"body":"big thing, too."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3054.059,"endTime":3056.519,"body":"Yeah. I mean, I don't"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3054.059,"endTime":3056.519,"body":"really have anything to add,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3056.519,"endTime":3058.71,"body":"other than I love that if I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3056.519,"endTime":3058.71,"body":"think it's great advice. I think"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3058.71,"endTime":3060.809,"body":"asking questions is important."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3058.71,"endTime":3060.809,"body":"And I think it's a burden for"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3060.809,"endTime":3064.17,"body":"everybody at every level, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3060.809,"endTime":3064.17,"body":"know, but just like you're"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3064.17,"endTime":3067.71,"body":"saying, you know, you're saying"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3064.17,"endTime":3067.71,"body":"you didn't want to, I don't"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3067.71,"endTime":3070.349,"body":"know, appear like you didn't"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3067.71,"endTime":3070.349,"body":"know anything, or whatever. But"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3070.38,"endTime":3072.75,"body":"the fact that you're working on"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3070.38,"endTime":3072.75,"body":"anything, have a question to ask"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3072.75,"endTime":3075.869,"body":"even as evidence enough, that,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3072.75,"endTime":3075.869,"body":"that you that you do know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3075.869,"endTime":3081.269,"body":"things, you know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3075.869,"endTime":3081.269,"body":"And I don't know, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3081.269,"endTime":3083.82,"body":"possible to struggle through"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3081.269,"endTime":3083.82,"body":"everything all by yourself, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3083.82,"endTime":3087.989,"body":"know, it is possible, but it's"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3083.82,"endTime":3087.989,"body":"much easier with, with people,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3088.139,"endTime":3092.55,"body":"and it's not even just like"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3088.139,"endTime":3092.55,"body":"learning how to be a dev or"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3092.55,"endTime":3096.3,"body":"whatever, you know, any problem"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3092.55,"endTime":3096.3,"body":"you're struggling with, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3096.3,"endTime":3100.26,"body":"know, is, is at some point going"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3096.3,"endTime":3100.26,"body":"to be better if you can get"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3100.26,"endTime":3103.289,"body":"somebody else to, like, look at"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3100.26,"endTime":3103.289,"body":"it, or, you know, talk through"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3103.289,"endTime":3107.88,"body":"your, your mental process, or"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3103.289,"endTime":3107.88,"body":"whatever it is, you know, asking"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3107.88,"endTime":3113.01,"body":"questions is just, it's just"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3107.88,"endTime":3113.01,"body":"such a useful tool, you know, an"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3113.01,"endTime":3115.139,"body":"important important thing to"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3113.01,"endTime":3115.139,"body":"keep in mind."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3116.469,"endTime":3118.75,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3116.469,"endTime":3118.75,"body":"think, to go along with that,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3118.9,"endTime":3122.409,"body":"you call it a useful tool. And I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3118.9,"endTime":3122.409,"body":"think that's a good way to frame"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3122.409,"endTime":3126.82,"body":"it, right, because it is"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3122.409,"endTime":3126.82,"body":"something that we need to"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3126.82,"endTime":3129.519,"body":"develop. And it's something that"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3126.82,"endTime":3129.519,"body":"we need to use often. And I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3129.519,"endTime":3133.329,"body":"think if you could learn that"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3129.519,"endTime":3133.329,"body":"while you're learning, it's so"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3133.329,"endTime":3137.23,"body":"important, because it took me a"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3133.329,"endTime":3137.23,"body":"lot longer to learn about asking"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3137.23,"endTime":3140.38,"body":"questions, and when to ask"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3137.23,"endTime":3140.38,"body":"questions. for a lot of reasons"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3140.38,"endTime":3143.559,"body":"you said, Debra-Kaye, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3140.38,"endTime":3143.559,"body":"I was like working, but I didn't"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3143.559,"endTime":3146.679,"body":"want anybody to think I didn't"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3143.559,"endTime":3146.679,"body":"know what I was doing. And so"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3146.679,"endTime":3152.92,"body":"then I just like, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3146.679,"endTime":3152.92,"body":"I was trying to, you know, carve"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3152.98,"endTime":3156.55,"body":"a mountain and no that I was"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3152.98,"endTime":3156.55,"body":"just gonna go and do this"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3156.55,"endTime":3159.34,"body":"analogy. And it's just not not"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3156.55,"endTime":3159.34,"body":"gonna work.="},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3161.92,"endTime":3164.86,"body":"So the point is, ask questions"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3161.92,"endTime":3164.86,"body":"early."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3167.32,"endTime":3168.94,"body":"No, no, I want to know"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3167.32,"endTime":3168.94,"body":"what it was."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3172.84,"endTime":3175.36,"body":"Like, I can"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3172.84,"endTime":3175.36,"body":"see the image in my head too, of"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3175.36,"endTime":3178.9,"body":"like, where it was going and how"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3175.36,"endTime":3178.9,"body":"it would play out.It looks cool,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3178.9,"endTime":3182.86,"body":"but doesn't translate."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3186.42,"endTime":3190.739,"body":"There's a podcast, I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3186.42,"endTime":3190.739,"body":"listened to that. They've built"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3190.739,"endTime":3195.119,"body":"up this very complicated"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3190.739,"endTime":3195.119,"body":"metaphor for like brain"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3195.119,"endTime":3199.949,"body":"processes. And like it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3195.119,"endTime":3199.949,"body":"it's a it's a, it's complicated,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3199.949,"endTime":3202.23,"body":"and they built it up in like,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3199.949,"endTime":3202.23,"body":"the first couple episodes, and"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3202.23,"endTime":3205.53,"body":"then they just use it the rest"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3202.23,"endTime":3205.53,"body":"of the time. And so they're"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3205.53,"endTime":3209.159,"body":"like, referring to these weird"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3205.53,"endTime":3209.159,"body":"things. Like, I think if you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3209.159,"endTime":3211.38,"body":"jump in the middle of like, if"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3209.159,"endTime":3211.38,"body":"you just listen to the most"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3211.38,"endTime":3213.51,"body":"recent podcast episode, you have"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3211.38,"endTime":3213.51,"body":"no idea what they're talking"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3213.51,"endTime":3215.429,"body":"about. But I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3215.63,"endTime":3216.86,"body":"-- that's"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3215.63,"endTime":3216.86,"body":"what I was trying to avoid."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3216.86,"endTime":3229.34,"body":"Exactly. Okay, so we're like,"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3216.86,"endTime":3229.34,"body":"trying to see what we have."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3229.369,"endTime":3233.84,"body":"We're just about at time. So I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3229.369,"endTime":3233.84,"body":"just want to know before, I"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3233.84,"endTime":3235.82,"body":"don't want to wrap up if there's"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3233.84,"endTime":3235.82,"body":"something else that you want to"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3235.82,"endTime":3239.389,"body":"talk about. So if there's"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3235.82,"endTime":3239.389,"body":"anything else that you want to"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3239.389,"endTime":3240.559,"body":"cover, we can go ahead."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3242.059,"endTime":3247.099,"body":"No, I mean, I just"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3242.059,"endTime":3247.099,"body":"want to say that I encourage"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3247.099,"endTime":3252.59,"body":"people to play me encouraging"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3247.099,"endTime":3252.59,"body":"someone to ask questions and to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3253.099,"endTime":3258.5,"body":"not be afraid to put yourself"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3253.099,"endTime":3258.5,"body":"out there that took me a long"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3258.5,"endTime":3263.36,"body":"time to get comfortable doing"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3258.5,"endTime":3263.36,"body":"that. still working on it. But"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3266.599,"endTime":3271.639,"body":"you have to get to a point where"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3266.599,"endTime":3271.639,"body":"you're willing to take a little"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3271.639,"endTime":3278.21,"body":"tiny step and ask a question and"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3271.639,"endTime":3278.21,"body":"ask for help and share something"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3278.21,"endTime":3281.239,"body":"that you think you don't know,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3278.21,"endTime":3281.239,"body":"but can actually help someone"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3281.239,"endTime":3287.78,"body":"else. And it took me a long time"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3281.239,"endTime":3287.78,"body":"to get there. Because I even"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3287.78,"endTime":3292.28,"body":"like just started blogging, not"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3287.78,"endTime":3292.28,"body":"just started but last year, late"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3292.28,"endTime":3295.34,"body":"last year, and I was like, you"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3292.28,"endTime":3295.34,"body":"know how to write about tech and"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3295.34,"endTime":3299.42,"body":"I don't know anything about"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3295.34,"endTime":3299.42,"body":"tech, but I've just been like"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3299.42,"endTime":3301.579,"body":"trying to write about My"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3299.42,"endTime":3301.579,"body":"experience in learning my"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3301.579,"endTime":3305.78,"body":"learning journey, and the way"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3301.579,"endTime":3305.78,"body":"that I saw it resonate with"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3305.78,"endTime":3310.429,"body":"other people. I was like, No,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3305.78,"endTime":3310.429,"body":"some are the only one who feels"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3310.429,"endTime":3316.73,"body":"this way. Cool. And that kind of"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3310.429,"endTime":3316.73,"body":"helps show me that I'm not alone"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3316.73,"endTime":3320.119,"body":"in in the struggle, and like, I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3316.73,"endTime":3320.119,"body":"knew I was ventually getting,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3320.15,"endTime":3326.269,"body":"but when I saw other people"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3320.15,"endTime":3326.269,"body":"responding like, this is me to a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3326.269,"endTime":3330.26,"body":"team and was like, Okay, cool."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3326.269,"endTime":3330.26,"body":"So it's not only me, that's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3330.26,"endTime":3334.309,"body":"really cool. Like, that was like"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3330.26,"endTime":3334.309,"body":"the highlight of my day when I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3334.309,"endTime":3338.059,"body":"read that feedback. Like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3334.309,"endTime":3338.059,"body":"cool. That means I'm on the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3338.059,"endTime":3341.119,"body":"right track. It's not only me,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3338.059,"endTime":3341.119,"body":"this is kind of cool."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3342.71,"endTime":3346.94,"body":"Yeah, I love that. I, I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3342.71,"endTime":3346.94,"body":"don't know, that's always a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3346.94,"endTime":3351.079,"body":"piece of advice I give to"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3346.94,"endTime":3351.079,"body":"everybody to is is writing at"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3351.079,"endTime":3353.659,"body":"any point, any point in your in"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3351.079,"endTime":3353.659,"body":"your journey, you know what I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3353.659,"endTime":3357.17,"body":"mean? But like the those, it's"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3353.659,"endTime":3357.17,"body":"so valuable to share those"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3357.17,"endTime":3361.099,"body":"experiences, you know, I get"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3357.17,"endTime":3361.099,"body":"appreciate it down the road to"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3361.099,"endTime":3364.519,"body":"when, when you're, you know, was"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3361.099,"endTime":3364.519,"body":"an old developer who's been"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3364.519,"endTime":3369.079,"body":"around the road and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3364.519,"endTime":3369.079,"body":"reading back, I mean, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3369.079,"endTime":3373.219,"body":"had I have blog posts from, you"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3369.079,"endTime":3373.219,"body":"know, early in my career, I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3373.219,"endTime":3378.679,"body":"guess, but they're not. I was in"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3373.219,"endTime":3378.679,"body":"college when I was learning for"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3378.679,"endTime":3381.139,"body":"the first time, I was still on"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3378.679,"endTime":3381.139,"body":"my own. I wasn't learning in"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3381.139,"endTime":3384.26,"body":"college. But But like, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3381.139,"endTime":3384.26,"body":"mean, I wasn't writing any of"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3384.26,"endTime":3388.46,"body":"this down. And I do wish I had"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3384.26,"endTime":3388.46,"body":"even just for myself records,"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3388.489,"endTime":3390.889,"body":"you know, of this sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3388.489,"endTime":3390.889,"body":"I think it's I think it's very"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3390.889,"endTime":3394.219,"body":"cool. And a very good idea. for"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3390.889,"endTime":3394.219,"body":"a lot of reasons."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3396.019,"endTime":3400.909,"body":"Yeah. Someone wrote"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3396.019,"endTime":3400.909,"body":"a blog post about that. I think"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3400.909,"endTime":3407.03,"body":"it was I can't remember if it"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3400.909,"endTime":3407.03,"body":"was swyx, on Twitter, Shawn,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3407.96,"endTime":3412.19,"body":"somebody who I think it was him,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3407.96,"endTime":3412.19,"body":"but just the idea of like"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3412.19,"endTime":3416.78,"body":"documenting your journey,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3412.19,"endTime":3416.78,"body":"because not really for anyone's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3416.78,"endTime":3420.469,"body":"benefit, per se, but for your"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3416.78,"endTime":3420.469,"body":"own benefit. Because I've seen a"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3420.469,"endTime":3424.429,"body":"lot of developers see that the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3420.469,"endTime":3424.429,"body":"maybe solve a problem. And they"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3424.429,"endTime":3426.98,"body":"wrote about it. And then when"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3424.429,"endTime":3426.98,"body":"they forgot how to do it, they"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3426.98,"endTime":3430.309,"body":"would search and find by their"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3426.98,"endTime":3430.309,"body":"own blogs and be like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3430.309,"endTime":3434.539,"body":"actually, what about this, to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3430.309,"endTime":3434.539,"body":"remind themselves how to do that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3434.539,"endTime":3438.739,"body":"thing or help solve that"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3434.539,"endTime":3438.739,"body":"problem. So I and I like to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3438.739,"endTime":3442.07,"body":"write and but I'm always"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3438.739,"endTime":3442.07,"body":"something like what I write"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3442.07,"endTime":3445.61,"body":"about. So like, my job is always"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3442.07,"endTime":3445.61,"body":"what am I What am I going to"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3445.61,"endTime":3449.269,"body":"write about? Because I don't"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3445.61,"endTime":3449.269,"body":"know it yet. But writing is"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3449.269,"endTime":3456.139,"body":"something that I definitely want"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3449.269,"endTime":3456.139,"body":"to continue when, like, have it"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3456.139,"endTime":3459.44,"body":"be a part of my thing, because I"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3456.139,"endTime":3459.44,"body":"always did like to write I did"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3459.44,"endTime":3463.909,"body":"my blog before but not tech"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3459.44,"endTime":3463.909,"body":"blogs. Because I always had the"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3464.03,"endTime":3470.57,"body":"thinking that I have to actually"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3464.03,"endTime":3470.57,"body":"be an expert in it before I can"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3470.57,"endTime":3474.59,"body":"write about it. So and that's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3470.57,"endTime":3474.59,"body":"why I always procrastinated on"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3474.59,"endTime":3477.38,"body":"trying to blog because I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3474.59,"endTime":3477.38,"body":"I don't know enough to write"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3477.38,"endTime":3482.329,"body":"about it yet. So what am I going"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3477.38,"endTime":3482.329,"body":"to write? Yeah. So it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3482.36,"endTime":3483.8,"body":"it's a it's a journey."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3485.01,"endTime":3488.55,"body":"That's for"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3485.01,"endTime":3488.55,"body":"sure. Okay, you have given us so"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3488.55,"endTime":3491.369,"body":"much great information. And"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3488.55,"endTime":3491.369,"body":"thank you so much for being with"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3491.369,"endTime":3494.13,"body":"us here today. We are very"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3491.369,"endTime":3494.13,"body":"excited to be able to share"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3494.13,"endTime":3495.21,"body":"this. Thank you."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3495.51,"endTime":3497.34,"body":"Thank you for having"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3495.51,"endTime":3497.34,"body":"me. This was great. This was"},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3497.34,"endTime":3499.17,"body":"fun."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3500.219,"endTime":3502.079,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3500.219,"endTime":3502.079,"body":"Well, we will talk to you soon."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3503.28,"endTime":3503.73,"body":"Bye."},{"speaker":"Debra-Kaye","startTime":3504.539,"endTime":3504.719,"body":"Bye."},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3508.71,"endTime":3510.599,"body":"Thank you"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3508.71,"endTime":3510.599,"body":"for listening to this episode of"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3510.599,"endTime":3514.8,"body":"the Virtual Coffee podcast. This"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3510.599,"endTime":3514.8,"body":"episode was produced by Dan Ott"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3514.8,"endTime":3519.03,"body":"and Bekah Hawrot Weigel, and"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3514.8,"endTime":3519.03,"body":"edited by Dan Ott. If you have"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3519.03,"endTime":3521.82,"body":"questions or comments, you can"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3519.03,"endTime":3521.82,"body":"hit us up on Twitter at"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3521.849,"endTime":3526.71,"body":"@VirtualCoffeeIO. Or you can"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3521.849,"endTime":3526.71,"body":"email us at podcast at Virtual"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3526.739,"endTime":3530.639,"body":"coffee.io. You can find the show"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3526.739,"endTime":3530.639,"body":"notes. Plus you can sign up for"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3530.639,"endTime":3533.88,"body":"our newsletter to find out what"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3530.639,"endTime":3533.88,"body":"Virtual Coffee has been up to on"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":3533.88,"endTime":3536.429,"body":"our website at Virtualcoffee.io."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3537.539,"endTime":3540.269,"body":"Please subscribe to our"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3537.539,"endTime":3540.269,"body":"podcast and be sure to leave us"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3540.269,"endTime":3543.48,"body":"a review. Thanks for listening"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":3540.269,"endTime":3543.48,"body":"and we'll see you next week."}]}