{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":5.203,"endTime":7.213,"body":"Hello, and"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":5.203,"endTime":7.213,"body":"welcome to Season 4, Episode 2"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":7.213,"endTime":9.223,"body":"of the"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":9.223,"endTime":11.342,"body":"Virtual Coffee Podcast. I'm"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":9.223,"endTime":11.342,"body":"Bekah. And this is a podcast"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":11.342,"endTime":13.461,"body":"that"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":13.461,"endTime":17.452,"body":"features members of the Virtual"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":13.461,"endTime":17.452,"body":"Coffee community. Virtual Coffee"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":17.452,"endTime":18.876,"body":"is an intimate group of"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":17.452,"endTime":18.876,"body":"developers at all stages of"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":18.876,"endTime":20.3,"body":"their"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":20.301,"endTime":23.271,"body":"coding journey. And they're here"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":20.301,"endTime":23.271,"body":"on this podcast, sharing their"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":23.271,"endTime":24.891,"body":"stories and what they've"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":23.271,"endTime":24.891,"body":"learned. And we're here to share"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":24.891,"endTime":26.511,"body":"it with"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":26.512,"endTime":29.692,"body":"you. Here with me today is my"},{"speaker":"Bekah Hawrot Weigel","startTime":26.512,"endTime":29.692,"body":"cohost, Dan."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":30.754,"endTime":32.539,"body":"Thanks, Bekah. Today"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":30.754,"endTime":32.539,"body":"we're joined by Todd Libby. Todd"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":32.539,"endTime":34.324,"body":"is a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":34.325,"endTime":37.804,"body":"web developer, designer, and"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":34.325,"endTime":37.804,"body":"accessibility advocate. And he's"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":37.984,"endTime":41.104,"body":"been doing it for over 20 years."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":37.984,"endTime":41.104,"body":"He's currently an accessibility"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":41.104,"endTime":44.225,"body":"engineer at WebstaurantStore."},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":41.104,"endTime":44.225,"body":"And he's also a member of the"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":44.225,"endTime":46.624,"body":"Worldwide Web Consortium — also"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":44.225,"endTime":46.624,"body":"known as W3C — doing work"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":46.624,"endTime":49.023,"body":"updating their --"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":49.024,"endTime":53.104,"body":"the web content accessibility"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":49.024,"endTime":53.104,"body":"guidelines. Todd also hosts a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":53.104,"endTime":55.804,"body":"podcast called Front End"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":53.104,"endTime":55.804,"body":"Nerdery. So once you're done"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":55.804,"endTime":58.125,"body":"listening to this episode, head"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":55.804,"endTime":58.125,"body":"over there, and give that one a"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":58.145,"endTime":61.445,"body":"listen. 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I"},{"speaker":"Dan Ott","startTime":74.944,"endTime":75.905,"body":"know you're going to enjoy it."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":84.066,"endTime":86.676,"body":"We start every episode of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":84.066,"endTime":86.676,"body":"the podcast like we start every"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":86.676,"endTime":90.605,"body":"Virtual Coffee. We introduce"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":86.676,"endTime":90.605,"body":"ourselves with our name, where"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":90.605,"endTime":92.7,"body":"we're from, what we do, and a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":90.605,"endTime":92.7,"body":"random check-in question."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":92.7,"endTime":94.795,"body":"Today's"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":94.816,"endTime":100.215,"body":"question is, what famous artist,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":94.816,"endTime":100.215,"body":"dead or alive, what'd you want"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":100.215,"endTime":105.813,"body":"to paint your portrait. We hope"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":100.215,"endTime":105.813,"body":"you enjoy this episode. My name"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":105.813,"endTime":109.575,"body":"is Bekah. I am a front-end"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":105.813,"endTime":109.575,"body":"developer from a small town in"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":109.575,"endTime":113.337,"body":"Ohio. And if"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":113.399,"endTime":117.509,"body":"I could have one person paint my"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":113.399,"endTime":117.509,"body":"portrait, I -- when I was in"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":117.599,"endTime":119.684,"body":"college, Georgia, there was like"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":117.599,"endTime":119.684,"body":"big Georgia O'Keeffe paintings"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":119.684,"endTime":121.769,"body":"or"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":122.489,"endTime":126.478,"body":"replicas in the hallways of my"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":122.489,"endTime":126.478,"body":"department. And I always loved"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":126.478,"endTime":129.7,"body":"them. And I know that's not what"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":126.478,"endTime":129.7,"body":"-- she doesn't paint"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":129.7,"endTime":131.808,"body":"people, but I think"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":131.808,"endTime":136.038,"body":"it would be cool to see how I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":131.808,"endTime":136.038,"body":"would be represented by her. So"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":136.188,"endTime":137.329,"body":"I'm gonna go with Georgia"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":136.188,"endTime":137.329,"body":"O'Keeffe."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":139.144,"endTime":142.573,"body":"Hi, I'm Dan. I'm a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":139.144,"endTime":142.573,"body":"front-end developer in"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":142.573,"endTime":144.002,"body":"Cleveland, Ohio."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":144.093,"endTime":147.693,"body":"And ... does it have to be"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":144.093,"endTime":147.693,"body":"famous person?"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":147.693,"endTime":148.463,"body":"Did I say famous?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":148.463,"endTime":149.403,"body":"I -- it said famous in the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":148.463,"endTime":149.403,"body":"question. But --"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":149.433,"endTime":150.968,"body":"Oh, I did. But, no. Like,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":149.433,"endTime":150.968,"body":"just take it out. Just --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":151.354,"endTime":153.393,"body":"I- I mean, Kate, one of my"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":151.354,"endTime":153.393,"body":"good friends at Kate Brideau"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":153.393,"endTime":155.432,"body":"from"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":155.433,"endTime":159.033,"body":"college, I would say that would"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":155.433,"endTime":159.033,"body":"be the person. That'd"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":159.033,"endTime":162.213,"body":"be famous. I don't- I don't"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":159.033,"endTime":162.213,"body":"really know a lot of famous"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":162.943,"endTime":164.7,"body":"painter names. I mean, except"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":162.943,"endTime":164.7,"body":"for, like, the really famous"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":164.7,"endTime":165.3,"body":"ones, you know?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":165.3,"endTime":170.503,"body":"And that seems like a boring"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":165.3,"endTime":170.503,"body":"answer. Maybe I have Raphael,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":170.524,"endTime":174.0,"body":"but not the- not the artist. The"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":170.524,"endTime":174.0,"body":"ninja turtle to my- to my-"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":173.614,"endTime":174.204,"body":"Or my- my"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":173.614,"endTime":174.204,"body":"[unintelligible]."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":174.0,"endTime":177.5,"body":"-version. Yeah. [Laughs]"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":174.0,"endTime":177.5,"body":"Well, it's -- well, sure."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":177.5,"endTime":178.3,"body":"There's- there's that too."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":178.3,"endTime":179.563,"body":"Yeah. A-any Raphael, really."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":178.3,"endTime":179.563,"body":"I'll take- take any version."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":179.563,"endTime":180.443,"body":"Sounds like a good choice"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":179.563,"endTime":180.443,"body":"[laughs]."},{"speaker":"Todd Libby","startTime":185.588,"endTime":189.818,"body":"And I'm Todd Libby."},{"speaker":"Todd Libby","startTime":185.588,"endTime":189.818,"body":"I am a front-end developer and"},{"speaker":"Todd Libby","startTime":189.818,"endTime":192.893,"body":"accessibility engineer,"},{"speaker":"Todd Libby","startTime":189.818,"endTime":192.893,"body":"currently in Phoenix, Arizona."},{"speaker":"Todd Libby","startTime":192.893,"endTime":195.968,"body":"And I guess"},{"speaker":"Todd Libby","startTime":196.959,"endTime":205.429,"body":"my artist would be ... I dunno."},{"speaker":"Todd Libby","startTime":196.959,"endTime":205.429,"body":"He- he was really ... unique. So"},{"speaker":"Todd Libby","startTime":205.429,"endTime":207.868,"body":"I guess I would say Salvador"},{"speaker":"Todd Libby","startTime":205.429,"endTime":207.868,"body":"Dali."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":208.899,"endTime":209.519,"body":"Mm. That's cool."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":209.718,"endTime":210.258,"body":"That'd be a good one."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":211.449,"endTime":212.853,"body":"There's -- anytime"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":211.449,"endTime":212.853,"body":"somebody is from Phoenix, I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":212.853,"endTime":214.257,"body":"think"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":214.258,"endTime":216.268,"body":"of a short story that I read"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":214.258,"endTime":216.268,"body":"from Sherman Alexie. \"This Is"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":216.268,"endTime":218.278,"body":"What It"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":218.278,"endTime":221.998,"body":"Means To Say Phoenix, Arizona.\""},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":218.278,"endTime":221.998,"body":"And I remember nothing about the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":221.998,"endTime":223.618,"body":"short story, except for the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":221.998,"endTime":223.618,"body":"title. And it's just,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":223.618,"endTime":225.238,"body":"automatically,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":225.239,"endTime":227.459,"body":"that what comes into my mind. So"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":225.239,"endTime":227.459,"body":"if you haven't read it, check"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":227.459,"endTime":229.679,"body":"it out"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":229.679,"endTime":231.179,"body":"and then remind me what it was"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":229.679,"endTime":231.179,"body":"about."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":231.609,"endTime":235.028,"body":"I haven't, but I- I will"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":231.609,"endTime":235.028,"body":"look that up, definitely. I'm"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":235.028,"endTime":238.688,"body":"originally from Portland, Maine."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":235.028,"endTime":238.688,"body":"So of course everybody knows me"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":238.688,"endTime":240.549,"body":"because of the lobster roll"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":238.688,"endTime":240.549,"body":"thing. So --"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":241.554,"endTime":245.514,"body":"Yes. Todd is all about"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":241.554,"endTime":245.514,"body":"the lobsters and in our Virtual"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":245.514,"endTime":250.883,"body":"Coffee Slack, he always uses the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":245.514,"endTime":250.883,"body":"lobster emoji to respond to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":250.883,"endTime":252.608,"body":"people. And so we just"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":250.883,"endTime":252.608,"body":"automatically recognize that"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":252.608,"endTime":254.333,"body":"it's"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":254.334,"endTime":258.444,"body":"Todd. So it's like he- he has"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":254.334,"endTime":258.444,"body":"claimed that emoji and it's one"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":258.444,"endTime":259.553,"body":"of the greatest things ever."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":260.303,"endTime":262.0,"body":"Yeah. It's- it's really"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":260.303,"endTime":262.0,"body":"cool. And it's just like, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":262.0,"endTime":262.803,"body":"see the lobster"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":262.803,"endTime":265.5,"body":"emoji pop up, you're like, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":262.803,"endTime":265.5,"body":"cool. Todd's here.\" Excellent"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":265.5,"endTime":266.093,"body":"[all laugh]."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":266.093,"endTime":270.417,"body":"I just think it's funny."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":266.093,"endTime":270.417,"body":"Like, when- when new people"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":270.418,"endTime":273.538,"body":"come into Virtual Coffee and"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":270.418,"endTime":273.538,"body":"then they also click the lobster"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":273.538,"endTime":274.069,"body":"emoji. So --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":274.069,"endTime":276.0,"body":"I mean, I always click it."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":274.069,"endTime":276.0,"body":"I- I mean-"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":276.0,"endTime":276.3,"body":"You do?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":276.3,"endTime":277.5,"body":"I don't do it first. You"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":276.3,"endTime":277.5,"body":"know what I mean? But like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":277.5,"endTime":279.7,"body":"-- it's- it's like high fiving"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":277.5,"endTime":279.7,"body":"Todd, you know? It's like-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":279.7,"endTime":280.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":280.5,"endTime":283.559,"body":"-celebrating the- the- the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":280.5,"endTime":283.559,"body":"Toddness of- of it."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":284.363,"endTime":286.343,"body":"The virtual- virtual high"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":284.363,"endTime":286.343,"body":"five [laughs]."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":286.798,"endTime":287.459,"body":"[Laughs] That's right."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":287.848,"endTime":288.983,"body":"Right. And it can be"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":287.848,"endTime":288.983,"body":"a-about all sorts of different"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":288.983,"endTime":290.118,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":290.119,"endTime":291.874,"body":"Like, somebody could post a- a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":290.119,"endTime":291.874,"body":"question that they have, and"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":291.874,"endTime":293.629,"body":"then"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":293.629,"endTime":296.0,"body":"like, there's a lobster emoji"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":293.629,"endTime":296.0,"body":"[chuckles]. It's not about"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":296.0,"endTime":298.3,"body":"lobster. Although, if I had a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":296.0,"endTime":298.3,"body":"question about lobster, I would"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":298.3,"endTime":299.658,"body":"definitely ask Todd first."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":302.963,"endTime":304.494,"body":"[Chuckles] I've got a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":302.963,"endTime":304.494,"body":"million no one answers."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":305.838,"endTime":308.048,"body":"I feel like that's a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":305.838,"endTime":308.048,"body":"separate podcast episode."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":308.048,"endTime":308.168,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":308.209,"endTime":309.189,"body":"Does it [unintelligible]?"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":309.548,"endTime":313.0,"body":"Thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":309.548,"endTime":313.0,"body":"being here with us, Todd."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":313.0,"endTime":313.5,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":313.5,"endTime":317.5,"body":"We always like to start"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":313.5,"endTime":317.5,"body":"with the origin story. How did"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":317.5,"endTime":318.588,"body":"you get to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":318.588,"endTime":322.309,"body":"where you are today? So, if you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":318.588,"endTime":322.309,"body":"wanna take us through that"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":322.309,"endTime":322.488,"body":"path, that would be awesome."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":323.423,"endTime":327.173,"body":"Yeah. Oh, boy. That's a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":323.423,"endTime":327.173,"body":"long one. I'll give you the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":327.173,"endTime":332.824,"body":"abridged version. Nine years"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":327.173,"endTime":332.824,"body":"old, I started on a Commodore"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":332.824,"endTime":338.463,"body":"PET in school. And then"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":332.824,"endTime":338.463,"body":"gradually worked my way up to a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":338.463,"endTime":340.848,"body":"Commodore 64, where I learned"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":338.463,"endTime":340.848,"body":"BASIC, a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":340.848,"endTime":343.233,"body":"flavors"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":343.233,"endTime":350.343,"body":"of BASIC, and was just, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":343.233,"endTime":350.343,"body":"know, it was just a hobby of"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":350.343,"endTime":355.803,"body":"course at that point. But ..."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":350.343,"endTime":355.803,"body":"what was it? About 1999, I had"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":361.264,"endTime":368.5,"body":"a .... what was it? A 386"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":361.264,"endTime":368.5,"body":"desktop IBM computer. And I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":368.5,"endTime":369.139,"body":"started to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":369.139,"endTime":375.167,"body":"learn HTML. And this was before"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":369.139,"endTime":375.167,"body":"CSS. So that is the indication"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":375.168,"endTime":383.178,"body":"of how old I am. And JavaScript"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":375.168,"endTime":383.178,"body":"was just kicking around. I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":383.178,"endTime":385.323,"body":"started learning how to design"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":383.178,"endTime":385.323,"body":"websites using Front Page"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":385.323,"endTime":387.468,"body":"Express"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":387.499,"endTime":395.103,"body":"in Internet Explorer 3 and 4."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":387.499,"endTime":395.103,"body":"And just, it- it went from"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":395.103,"endTime":404.733,"body":"there. Programming was cool. I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":395.103,"endTime":404.733,"body":"used to do ... in BASIC on a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":404.733,"endTime":409.564,"body":"Commodore, I would program — if"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":404.733,"endTime":409.564,"body":"anybody remembers those \"Choose"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":409.564,"endTime":412.7,"body":"Your Own Adventure\" books from"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":409.564,"endTime":412.7,"body":"way back in the day-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":413.0,"endTime":413.3,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":413.3,"endTime":414.454,"body":"-I u- I used to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":414.454,"endTime":421.863,"body":"program a text-based ... pretty"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":414.454,"endTime":421.863,"body":"much copying [??], and I hope no"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":421.863,"endTime":426.5,"body":"one's listening from that"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":421.863,"endTime":426.5,"body":"company, but [laughs], I- I used"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":426.5,"endTime":428.7,"body":"to, just to- to just practice."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":428.7,"endTime":433.399,"body":"I would just, you know, code"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":428.7,"endTime":433.399,"body":"those books into a- into a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":433.399,"endTime":438.468,"body":"text-based game on Commodore 64."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":433.399,"endTime":438.468,"body":"And that's really what got me"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":438.468,"endTime":442.249,"body":"started because I was living in"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":438.468,"endTime":442.249,"body":"a very rural area in- in New"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":442.249,"endTime":448.009,"body":"England. And there wasn't much"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":442.249,"endTime":448.009,"body":"to do, so -- except for"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":448.038,"endTime":454.488,"body":"programming at that point. So,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":448.038,"endTime":454.488,"body":"skip ahead to today, or when I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":454.488,"endTime":460.548,"body":"started professionally and I was"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":454.488,"endTime":460.548,"body":"22 years ago. And I started,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":461.538,"endTime":464.689,"body":"I read Jeffrey Zeldman's book"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":461.538,"endTime":464.689,"body":"\"Designing with Web Standards\","},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":465.168,"endTime":467.0,"body":"instantly got hooked into-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":466.5,"endTime":467.0,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":467.5,"endTime":469.788,"body":"-web standards,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":467.5,"endTime":469.788,"body":"progressive"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":469.788,"endTime":472.038,"body":"enhancement accessibility. And"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":469.788,"endTime":472.038,"body":"it just, you know, took off to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":472.038,"endTime":474.288,"body":"the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":474.288,"endTime":479.449,"body":"point where it is today, where"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":474.288,"endTime":479.449,"body":"I'm in the- the field that I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":479.478,"endTime":481.478,"body":"enjoy being in, and that's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":479.478,"endTime":481.478,"body":"accessibility."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":484.269,"endTime":486.0,"body":"I think that's awesome. I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":484.269,"endTime":486.0,"body":"-- and I- I love that book"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":486.0,"endTime":492.0,"body":"too. And Jeffery Zeldman"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":486.0,"endTime":492.0,"body":"[laughs]. I- I have been -- so"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":492.0,"endTime":496.5,"body":"22 years ago is what? 99, 2000,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":492.0,"endTime":496.5,"body":"something like that, you know?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":496.5,"endTime":499.478,"body":"And I- I think I got into -- I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":496.5,"endTime":499.478,"body":"mean, I was"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":499.478,"endTime":501.748,"body":"starting to make something"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":499.478,"endTime":501.748,"body":"around then and really kinda got"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":501.748,"endTime":504.018,"body":"a lot more"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":504.019,"endTime":507.588,"body":"into it a couple of years later."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":504.019,"endTime":507.588,"body":"But was with the web"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":507.588,"endTime":508.713,"body":"standards, you know, movement"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":507.588,"endTime":508.713,"body":"and everything like that. And"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":508.713,"endTime":509.838,"body":"I've"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":509.838,"endTime":511.953,"body":"been, you know, and similarly"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":509.838,"endTime":511.953,"body":"front-end focused for"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":511.953,"endTime":514.068,"body":"a long"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":514.068,"endTime":516.859,"body":"time. And one of us was -- just"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":514.068,"endTime":516.859,"body":"one of the reasons I was very"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":516.859,"endTime":519.7,"body":"excited to have you on this"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":516.859,"endTime":519.7,"body":"podcast and just to kinda get"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":519.7,"endTime":522.288,"body":"to- get to hang out with a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":519.7,"endTime":522.288,"body":"little bit more."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":522.318,"endTime":522.438,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":523.879,"endTime":528.7,"body":"It's a -- so, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":523.879,"endTime":528.7,"body":"focusing on front end and"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":528.7,"endTime":529.428,"body":"focusing on"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":529.428,"endTime":534.303,"body":"accessibility, things like that,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":529.428,"endTime":534.303,"body":"what -- I mean, what career"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":534.303,"endTime":536.313,"body":"opportunities has that, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":534.303,"endTime":536.313,"body":"presented to you from, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":536.313,"endTime":538.7,"body":"starting -- I mean, you don't"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":536.313,"endTime":538.7,"body":"need to, like, list every single"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":538.7,"endTime":539.073,"body":"one or"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":539.073,"endTime":541.433,"body":"whatever. But, like, run- run us"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":539.073,"endTime":541.433,"body":"through a little bit of how-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":541.443,"endTime":544.7,"body":"how that's been being like, a- a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":541.443,"endTime":544.7,"body":"front end, and especially"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":544.7,"endTime":546.333,"body":"accessibility, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":546.364,"endTime":548.734,"body":"specialist, for whatever that"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":546.364,"endTime":548.734,"body":"means for- [chuckles] for you,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":548.734,"endTime":551.104,"body":"you know?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":551.124,"endTime":552.163,"body":"Run it through a little bit,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":551.124,"endTime":552.163,"body":"like, how that's been finding-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":552.163,"endTime":553.202,"body":"finding"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":553.744,"endTime":554.973,"body":"work and finding people that"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":553.744,"endTime":554.973,"body":"care about that sort of thing?"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":556.869,"endTime":560.259,"body":"Can I just jump into, if"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":556.869,"endTime":560.259,"body":"you can just provide some"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":560.259,"endTime":564.5,"body":"context for what- what does"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":560.259,"endTime":564.5,"body":"accessibility mean and how does"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":564.5,"endTime":566.048,"body":"that work as part of a job?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":567.379,"endTime":573.109,"body":"Okay. To address what it's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":567.379,"endTime":573.109,"body":"accessibility mean, I'll- I'll"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":573.109,"endTime":578.708,"body":"address that first. And that is"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":573.109,"endTime":578.708,"body":"making the web equal and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":578.708,"endTime":582.634,"body":"accessible for everybody. It"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":578.708,"endTime":582.634,"body":"just doesn't have to be a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":582.634,"endTime":584.989,"body":"disability. It can be, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":582.634,"endTime":584.989,"body":"somebody in -- I'll use this"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":584.989,"endTime":587.344,"body":"example."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":587.673,"endTime":590.763,"body":"In a very rural area who has a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":587.673,"endTime":590.763,"body":"3G phone, and, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":590.763,"endTime":593.853,"body":"not a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":593.854,"endTime":597.484,"body":"very fast connection is to, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":593.854,"endTime":597.484,"body":"know, what we have these days"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":597.484,"endTime":604.714,"body":"with our shiny new iPhones and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":597.484,"endTime":604.714,"body":"stuff like that. And then"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":604.714,"endTime":608.3,"body":"accessibility -- well,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":604.714,"endTime":608.3,"body":"so-somebody in accessibility"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":608.3,"endTime":610.188,"body":"would basically,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":610.278,"endTime":616.038,"body":"not only advocate, but don't --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":610.278,"endTime":616.038,"body":"in my daily routine of doing"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":616.068,"endTime":622.639,"body":"auditing on websites, it's just"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":616.068,"endTime":622.639,"body":"checking to see if sites are"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":622.639,"endTime":627.619,"body":"accessible if they're, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":622.639,"endTime":627.619,"body":"if they should be failing"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":627.918,"endTime":632.239,"body":"Web Content Accessibility"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":627.918,"endTime":632.239,"body":"Guidelines — WCAG is how I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":632.298,"endTime":633.843,"body":"pronounce it. There's many"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":632.298,"endTime":633.843,"body":"different pronunciations to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":633.843,"endTime":635.388,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":635.389,"endTime":646.489,"body":"But [laughs] the, you know --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":635.389,"endTime":646.489,"body":"and you know, there's different,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":646.489,"endTime":654.749,"body":"I guess, levels of how people"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":646.489,"endTime":654.749,"body":"will do an audit. Like, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":654.749,"endTime":659.7,"body":"know, you can do the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":654.749,"endTime":659.7,"body":"A and AA as far as the levels."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":659.7,"endTime":660.538,"body":"So there's A,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":660.568,"endTime":666.058,"body":"AA, and AAA. A lot of people I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":660.568,"endTime":666.058,"body":"find don't do AAA because it's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":666.058,"endTime":668.593,"body":"too stringent and it's also, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":666.058,"endTime":668.593,"body":"don't have to go that far in"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":668.593,"endTime":671.128,"body":"most"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":671.129,"endTime":677.224,"body":"cases. But it's just auditing,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":671.129,"endTime":677.224,"body":"making sure sites are"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":677.224,"endTime":682.984,"body":"accessible in creating a report"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":677.224,"endTime":682.984,"body":"for a client and then"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":683.043,"endTime":685.098,"body":"telling them, \"Here's what's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":683.043,"endTime":685.098,"body":"wrong. Here's how you need to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":685.098,"endTime":687.153,"body":"fix it."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":687.214,"endTime":692.553,"body":"This doesn't, you know, adhere"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":687.214,"endTime":692.553,"body":"to the guidelines and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":692.583,"endTime":697.803,"body":"recommendations for best"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":692.583,"endTime":697.803,"body":"practices as well.\" And, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":697.803,"endTime":700.953,"body":"know, looking at code and, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":697.803,"endTime":700.953,"body":"know, always looking at HTML and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":700.953,"endTime":706.594,"body":"CSS because CSS too has a strong"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":700.953,"endTime":706.594,"body":"effect on accessibility. And"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":707.043,"endTime":711.464,"body":"that's what the job entails. And"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":707.043,"endTime":711.464,"body":"Dan, what was your question?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":712.369,"endTime":713.463,"body":"Alright. I guess my"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":712.369,"endTime":713.463,"body":"question was, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":713.463,"endTime":714.557,"body":"it's- it's a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":714.558,"endTime":717.568,"body":"sort of -- I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":714.558,"endTime":717.568,"body":"non-traditional is the right"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":717.568,"endTime":720.0,"body":"word, but, you know, a- a sp-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":717.568,"endTime":720.0,"body":"being a specialist really, in"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":720.0,"endTime":723.163,"body":"any regard, is a- is a choice,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":720.0,"endTime":723.163,"body":"you know, and can limit your"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":723.163,"endTime":725.248,"body":"options,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":725.249,"endTime":729.208,"body":"but like, also, you doing what"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":725.249,"endTime":729.208,"body":"you wanna do, right? And so I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":729.208,"endTime":733.048,"body":"wa- my question was more like,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":729.208,"endTime":733.048,"body":"how has it been, on your career"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":733.048,"endTime":735.568,"body":"journey, you know, being a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":733.048,"endTime":735.568,"body":"specialist, especially in the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":735.568,"endTime":736.948,"body":"accessibility world?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":737.803,"endTime":742.543,"body":"Right. It's been a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":737.803,"endTime":742.543,"body":"challenge lately in, I would say"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":742.543,"endTime":750.793,"body":"the past five, maybe 10 years."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":742.543,"endTime":750.793,"body":"Because not a lot of people,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":750.793,"endTime":753.464,"body":"not a lot of companies were"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":750.793,"endTime":753.464,"body":"looking for accessibility"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":753.464,"endTime":759.764,"body":"specialists. Not until ... I've"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":753.464,"endTime":759.764,"body":"pretty much noticed this year, a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":759.764,"endTime":763.333,"body":"lot of companies are now looking"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":759.764,"endTime":763.333,"body":"for accessibility specialists"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":763.333,"endTime":767.668,"body":"because companies are getting"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":763.333,"endTime":767.668,"body":"sued. And they don't wanna get"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":767.668,"endTime":773.908,"body":"sued. That's- that's the bottom"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":767.668,"endTime":773.908,"body":"line. So my professional journey"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":773.908,"endTime":780.239,"body":"had been, I worked -- I started"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":773.908,"endTime":780.239,"body":"-- I did a website for"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":780.239,"endTime":787.769,"body":"somebody I knew back in New"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":780.239,"endTime":787.769,"body":"England, Maine. And, it was"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":787.769,"endTime":790.288,"body":"just a small site. And then from"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":787.769,"endTime":790.288,"body":"there, I got, you know, a few"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":790.288,"endTime":792.807,"body":"different"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":793.019,"endTime":796.859,"body":"jobs doing websites. And then"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":793.019,"endTime":796.859,"body":"from there, I was like, \"Well,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":796.859,"endTime":798.794,"body":"you know, this thing's taken"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":796.859,"endTime":798.794,"body":"off. I'm gonna do the f- I'm"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":798.794,"endTime":800.739,"body":"gonna go"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":800.739,"endTime":811.903,"body":"the freelance route.\" So that's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":800.739,"endTime":811.903,"body":"what I did. And up until 2015,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":811.903,"endTime":816.644,"body":"I was a freelance developer, I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":811.903,"endTime":816.644,"body":"guess, you could say. I got into"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":816.644,"endTime":822.313,"body":"WordPress, PHP development, and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":816.644,"endTime":822.313,"body":"then, I was hired by a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":822.313,"endTime":831.403,"body":"company to do their website and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":822.313,"endTime":831.403,"body":"their SaaS- their SaaS"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":832.663,"endTime":841.124,"body":"site, I guess. It was a- a thing"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":832.663,"endTime":841.124,"body":"where you log in and it wasn't a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":841.124,"endTime":852.043,"body":"public facing site. And from"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":841.124,"endTime":852.043,"body":"there, it would b-been about, I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":852.043,"endTime":854.368,"body":"don't know. I think I counted"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":852.043,"endTime":854.368,"body":"over 2000 resumes that I had"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":854.368,"endTime":856.693,"body":"sent out"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":856.693,"endTime":863.323,"body":"to companies in 20 years, and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":856.693,"endTime":863.323,"body":"one company hired me. And that"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":863.323,"endTime":868.994,"body":"was that company that I worked"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":863.323,"endTime":868.994,"body":"for in 2015 to ... just"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":869.024,"endTime":874.033,"body":"last year, as a matter of fact."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":869.024,"endTime":874.033,"body":"And then finally somebody took a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":874.033,"endTime":876.823,"body":"chance on me. That would have"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":874.033,"endTime":876.823,"body":"been Nobility. I was hired by"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":876.823,"endTime":883.903,"body":"Nobility in March- i-in March or"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":876.823,"endTime":883.903,"body":"April. Geez, it's been over"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":883.903,"endTime":886.033,"body":"six months. But [laughs] --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":886.889,"endTime":887.818,"body":"What is time anyway?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":888.418,"endTime":889.888,"body":"Yeah. Well, I don't even"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":888.418,"endTime":889.888,"body":"know [laughs] anymore. I'm in a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":889.888,"endTime":891.358,"body":"different time"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":891.359,"endTime":897.928,"body":"zone now, so that's messed me up"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":891.359,"endTime":897.928,"body":"too [laughs]. But Nobility gave"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":897.928,"endTime":902.458,"body":"me a, you know, an opportunity"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":897.928,"endTime":902.458,"body":"and very grateful for that"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":902.458,"endTime":909.178,"body":"opportunity with them. And a lot"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":902.458,"endTime":909.178,"body":"of great people in Nobility"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":909.208,"endTime":912.238,"body":"that work for the company."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":909.208,"endTime":912.238,"body":"Everybody is a matter of fact."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":912.238,"endTime":915.268,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":915.298,"endTime":917.578,"body":"they do some really good stuff"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":915.298,"endTime":917.578,"body":"as far as accessibility goes."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":917.578,"endTime":919.858,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":919.918,"endTime":928.336,"body":"as of October 1st, I will be on"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":919.918,"endTime":928.336,"body":"the WebstaurantStore"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":928.466,"endTime":932.677,"body":"team as an accessibility"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":928.466,"endTime":932.677,"body":"engineer. So I look forward"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":932.677,"endTime":934.0,"body":"to that. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":934.1,"endTime":934.366,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":934.866,"endTime":937.506,"body":"Can- can you talk a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":934.866,"endTime":937.506,"body":"little bit about what you'll be"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":937.506,"endTime":939.5,"body":"doing in that role there? Maybe"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":937.506,"endTime":939.5,"body":"dive into a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":939.5,"endTime":939.756,"body":"details?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":941.871,"endTime":946.251,"body":"For right now, all I know"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":941.871,"endTime":946.251,"body":"is it's basically doing the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":946.251,"endTime":952.192,"body":"same thing I do now, and that's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":946.251,"endTime":952.192,"body":"auditing their product for"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":952.192,"endTime":964.251,"body":"their website. I know they use-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":952.192,"endTime":964.251,"body":"they use React and I think"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":964.282,"endTime":970.042,"body":"it was .NET. So that -- I'll be"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":964.282,"endTime":970.042,"body":"in that environment."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":970.782,"endTime":973.182,"body":"So, like, when you do an"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":970.782,"endTime":973.182,"body":"audit, where do you start with"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":973.182,"endTime":973.272,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":974.961,"endTime":981.471,"body":"So, when I do an audit, I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":974.961,"endTime":981.471,"body":"do automated checks and scans"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":981.471,"endTime":987.772,"body":"first. So I use stuff like the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":981.471,"endTime":987.772,"body":"WAVE extension, the Axe, I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":988.131,"endTime":992.601,"body":"now wait until the end to use"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":988.131,"endTime":992.601,"body":"the axe-core extension in the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":992.601,"endTime":1000.297,"body":"browser. Things, like, there's a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":992.601,"endTime":1000.297,"body":"command line called"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1000.297,"endTime":1008.726,"body":"Pa11y. So it's P-A-1-1-Y."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1000.297,"endTime":1008.726,"body":"There's that. I use -- does"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1008.756,"endTime":1015.057,"body":"Bookmarklets from Ian Lloyd and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1008.756,"endTime":1015.057,"body":"Paul J. Adam that I use, to also"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1015.326,"endTime":1021.206,"body":"do checks. Let's see. What else?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1015.326,"endTime":1021.206,"body":"There's Microsoft"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1021.236,"endTime":1027.267,"body":"Accessibility Insights, which is"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1021.236,"endTime":1027.267,"body":"a great tool to use. What"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1027.267,"endTime":1035.517,"body":"else? And ... I said Axe --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1027.267,"endTime":1035.517,"body":"color contrast checks. I use the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1035.517,"endTime":1039.626,"body":"Firefox accessibility dev tools,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1035.517,"endTime":1039.626,"body":"the accessibility panels, and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1039.626,"endTime":1046.196,"body":"those. And then I move on to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1039.626,"endTime":1046.196,"body":"manual testing. So, mouse only,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1046.961,"endTime":1053.112,"body":"keyboard only. I will do, it --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1046.961,"endTime":1053.112,"body":"which goes back to color"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1053.112,"endTime":1055.842,"body":"contrast, I'll do the squint"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1053.112,"endTime":1055.842,"body":"test. So I'll just look at the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1055.842,"endTime":1059.352,"body":"site while I'm squinting at it"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1055.842,"endTime":1059.352,"body":"and see if, you know, I can make"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1059.352,"endTime":1065.951,"body":"out anything, cuz that I was"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1059.352,"endTime":1065.951,"body":"taught not too long ago. So ..."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1065.951,"endTime":1066.551,"body":"and --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1066.551,"endTime":1069.626,"body":"I like that."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1066.551,"endTime":1072.701,"body":"Oh, screen readers. I will"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1066.551,"endTime":1072.701,"body":"use screen readers. So for Mac,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1072.701,"endTime":1078.192,"body":"there's VoiceOver. And it's best"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1072.701,"endTime":1078.192,"body":"to use VoiceOver in Safari"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1078.221,"endTime":1085.332,"body":"because the native, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1078.221,"endTime":1085.332,"body":"Mac app and everything. NVDA"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1085.332,"endTime":1094.81,"body":"and JAWS on a Windows. And if —"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1085.332,"endTime":1094.81,"body":"and it's very, very rare — but"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1094.811,"endTime":1101.067,"body":"if somebody says, \"Oh, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1094.811,"endTime":1101.067,"body":"we have Linux users.\" So I will"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1101.067,"endTime":1107.845,"body":"test on what -- and it's called"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1101.067,"endTime":1107.845,"body":"Orca for Linux, and, yeah. Those"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1107.846,"endTime":1113.5,"body":"are pretty much, if I remember"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1107.846,"endTime":1113.5,"body":"them all correctly [laughs]."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1113.5,"endTime":1114.236,"body":"Those are the tools I use."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1116.207,"endTime":1118.366,"body":"That's -- yeah. That's"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1116.207,"endTime":1118.366,"body":"awesome. It's very extensive. I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1118.366,"endTime":1119.926,"body":"was just writing all them down"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1118.366,"endTime":1119.926,"body":"so that, you know --"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1119.997,"endTime":1122.176,"body":"So was I. Well, the link"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1119.997,"endTime":1122.176,"body":"to those notes on show notes."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1122.471,"endTime":1124.136,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. And so-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1122.471,"endTime":1124.136,"body":"so like day to day -- I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1124.136,"endTime":1125.801,"body":"know"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1125.801,"endTime":1127.661,"body":"you haven't started yet, but"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1125.801,"endTime":1127.661,"body":"like, in your- in your role,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1127.661,"endTime":1129.521,"body":"will it be"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1129.882,"endTime":1133.541,"body":"mostly doing audits after the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1129.882,"endTime":1133.541,"body":"fact? Or like, will you be"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1133.541,"endTime":1134.876,"body":"interfacing with, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1133.541,"endTime":1134.876,"body":"not sure what they do, what"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1134.876,"endTime":1136.211,"body":"they --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1136.241,"endTime":1139.092,"body":"what- what they make or anything"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1136.241,"endTime":1139.092,"body":"like that. But, you know, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1139.092,"endTime":1143.142,"body":"where in the process are you-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1139.092,"endTime":1143.142,"body":"are you doing like"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1143.142,"endTime":1146.336,"body":"accessibility, you know, helping"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1143.142,"endTime":1146.336,"body":"the team with- with this stuff?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1146.336,"endTime":1150.446,"body":"Like, you know, audits for me"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1146.336,"endTime":1150.446,"body":"imply -- and I know this is not"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1150.446,"endTime":1153.537,"body":"always true, but when I- I think"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1150.446,"endTime":1153.537,"body":"of it as something, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1153.537,"endTime":1155.0,"body":"something's done, now we do an"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1153.537,"endTime":1155.0,"body":"audit on it. You know what I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1155.0,"endTime":1155.172,"body":"mean?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1155.5,"endTime":1156.0,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1156.0,"endTime":1158.3,"body":"But I was wondering it --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1156.0,"endTime":1158.3,"body":"and that I'm sure that's an"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1158.3,"endTime":1158.936,"body":"important part. I was"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1158.936,"endTime":1161.066,"body":"wondering if there's places"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1158.936,"endTime":1161.066,"body":"earlier in the process where-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1163.886,"endTime":1168.386,"body":"where, you know, you're able to"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1163.886,"endTime":1168.386,"body":"interface and like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1168.866,"endTime":1171.747,"body":"make suggestions before it, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1168.866,"endTime":1171.747,"body":"know, as opposed to like fixing"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1171.747,"endTime":1174.0,"body":"things, but like, help build"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1171.747,"endTime":1174.0,"body":"something, you know-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1174.0,"endTime":1175.0,"body":"Right. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1174.3,"endTime":1176.277,"body":"-the first time. Does that"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1174.3,"endTime":1176.277,"body":"make sense?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1176.277,"endTime":1182.946,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. I'm- I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1176.277,"endTime":1182.946,"body":"it's gonna be ... probably a- a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1182.946,"endTime":1189.096,"body":"lot of both. Maybe there's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1182.946,"endTime":1189.096,"body":"existing things on the site"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1189.636,"endTime":1196.416,"body":"that need to be checked,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1189.636,"endTime":1196.416,"body":"components that may be being"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1196.416,"endTime":1200.0,"body":"worked on that we'll have to be"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1196.416,"endTime":1200.0,"body":"checked. I mean, that's that --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1200.0,"endTime":1204.0,"body":"it's that way pretty much with"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1200.0,"endTime":1204.0,"body":"any kind of audit. So I've had"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1204.0,"endTime":1204.731,"body":"companies come"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1204.741,"endTime":1207.946,"body":"to me and say, you know, \"We --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1204.741,"endTime":1207.946,"body":"we've got somebody who emailed"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1207.946,"endTime":1211.151,"body":"us and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1211.152,"endTime":1213.806,"body":"said, 'This isn't accessible, so"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1211.152,"endTime":1213.806,"body":"we need a -- an audit done.'\""},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1213.806,"endTime":1216.46,"body":"And I'll"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1216.461,"endTime":1220.287,"body":"go through the site and say,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1216.461,"endTime":1220.287,"body":"\"Okay, I found all this. Here's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1220.287,"endTime":1223.5,"body":"what you need to do to fix it.\""},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1220.287,"endTime":1223.5,"body":"They'll fix it, you know?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1223.5,"endTime":1224.757,"body":"That'll be after"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1224.757,"endTime":1228.146,"body":"the fact of course. I've had"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1224.757,"endTime":1228.146,"body":"companies come in and ask me to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1228.146,"endTime":1231.386,"body":"do consulting with their teams"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1228.146,"endTime":1231.386,"body":"before the project starts to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1231.386,"endTime":1234.626,"body":"make"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1234.626,"endTime":1237.567,"body":"sure that it gets done"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1234.626,"endTime":1237.567,"body":"beforehand. Because when you do"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1237.567,"endTime":1240.836,"body":"an accessibili- when you- when"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1237.567,"endTime":1240.836,"body":"you bring in accessibility from"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1240.836,"endTime":1245.146,"body":"the start of a project, it's so"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1240.836,"endTime":1245.146,"body":"much easier and there's less --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1245.146,"endTime":1250.416,"body":"a lot less stress doing it from"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1245.146,"endTime":1250.416,"body":"the very beginning. Because when"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1250.416,"endTime":1253.957,"body":"you get to the end and you've"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1250.416,"endTime":1253.957,"body":"got everything is as accessible"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1253.957,"endTime":1258.336,"body":"as you can, and I'll add that"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1253.957,"endTime":1258.336,"body":"nothing's a hundred percent"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1258.336,"endTime":1265.537,"body":"accessible, it's- it's a lot"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1258.336,"endTime":1265.537,"body":"easier on your teams, you know?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1265.567,"endTime":1267.7,"body":"Like I said, there's a lot less"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1265.567,"endTime":1267.7,"body":"stress. You don't have to go"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1267.7,"endTime":1270.0,"body":"back and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1270.0,"endTime":1273.237,"body":"scatter around, trying to fix"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1270.0,"endTime":1273.237,"body":"this, that, and the other thing"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1273.656,"endTime":1277.826,"body":"after the fact. So -- and that's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1273.656,"endTime":1277.826,"body":"also where my advocacy"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1277.826,"endTime":1281.5,"body":"comes in is saying, \"Okay, if"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1277.826,"endTime":1281.5,"body":"you get this done from the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1281.5,"endTime":1286.616,"body":"start, you're gonna be -- it's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1281.5,"endTime":1286.616,"body":"gonna be so much easier. And"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1286.616,"endTime":1290.0,"body":"it's gonna cost less money"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1286.616,"endTime":1290.0,"body":"because you're not going back."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1290.0,"endTime":1293.426,"body":"It's gonna cause a lot less"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1290.0,"endTime":1293.426,"body":"stress.\" Again. And those are"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1293.426,"endTime":1297.0,"body":"the two main things, you know?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1297.0,"endTime":1299.3,"body":"But to answer the question, it's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1297.0,"endTime":1299.3,"body":"gonna be a little bit of both."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1299.0,"endTime":1302.0,"body":"And I would think -- because"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1299.0,"endTime":1302.0,"body":"like I said, it's usually that"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1302.0,"endTime":1305.906,"body":"way at the beginning, you know?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1305.906,"endTime":1307.346,"body":"Right. Get something to a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1305.906,"endTime":1307.346,"body":"baseline first."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1307.366,"endTime":1311.0,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. And I'll --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1307.366,"endTime":1311.0,"body":"and- and it's still re-re-really"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1311.0,"endTime":1311.807,"body":"early in the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1311.807,"endTime":1316.7,"body":"process, so I'm- I'm not too"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1311.807,"endTime":1316.7,"body":"sure. But I know that it'll"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1316.7,"endTime":1317.567,"body":"be a lot of,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1317.626,"endTime":1320.746,"body":"you know, checking to make sure"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1317.626,"endTime":1320.746,"body":"everything's good on the end"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1320.746,"endTime":1323.866,"body":"of,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1324.346,"endTime":1327.047,"body":"you know, before we put this"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1324.346,"endTime":1327.047,"body":"out, we need to make sure it's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1327.047,"endTime":1329.416,"body":"accessible. So --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1329.416,"endTime":1330.311,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1330.311,"endTime":1332.051,"body":"As you've been working"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1330.311,"endTime":1332.051,"body":"through this industry, do you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1332.051,"endTime":1338.307,"body":"think -- is there one problem"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1332.051,"endTime":1338.307,"body":"that you keep encountering over"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1338.307,"endTime":1342.356,"body":"and over? Like stand out issues,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1338.307,"endTime":1342.356,"body":"things that people can just"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1342.356,"endTime":1345.656,"body":"really look at and say, \"All"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1342.356,"endTime":1345.656,"body":"right. Let's start here.\""},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1346.352,"endTime":1351.5,"body":"Well, where do I begin?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1346.352,"endTime":1351.5,"body":"[Laughs] I-it -- that -- it's-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1351.5,"endTime":1355.5,"body":"it's a lot. But the mainly, it's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1351.5,"endTime":1355.5,"body":"color contrast-"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1355.5,"endTime":1356.0,"body":"Mm."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1356.0,"endTime":1365.0,"body":"-okay? That's the biggest"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1356.0,"endTime":1365.0,"body":"one. And keyboard accessibility"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1365.0,"endTime":1365.256,"body":"is another. And I'll throw in a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1365.0,"endTime":1365.256,"body":"third one. And that being ALT"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1369.487,"endTime":1375.0,"body":"text on images — the alternative"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1369.487,"endTime":1375.0,"body":"text."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1376.5,"endTime":1387.217,"body":"I've had, you know, a lot of --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1376.5,"endTime":1387.217,"body":"ALT text can be a tricky- a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1387.217,"endTime":1391.747,"body":"tricky thing because people"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1387.217,"endTime":1391.747,"body":"think, \"Well, I have this image."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1392.817,"endTime":1399.477,"body":"And I need to really go into"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1392.817,"endTime":1399.477,"body":"detail what that image is"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1399.477,"endTime":1401.711,"body":"conveying, if it's an"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1399.477,"endTime":1401.711,"body":"informative image.\" And you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1401.711,"endTime":1403.945,"body":"really don't -- just a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1403.946,"endTime":1411.146,"body":"short, you know, it's a purple"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1403.946,"endTime":1411.146,"body":"flower in a field, is- is fine."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1411.146,"endTime":1414.7,"body":"You don't have to go into --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1411.146,"endTime":1414.7,"body":"I've- I've seen on Twitter,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1414.7,"endTime":1418.7,"body":"because they give you a thousand"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1414.7,"endTime":1418.7,"body":"characters for ALT text. And"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1418.7,"endTime":1421.892,"body":"I've seen this [laughs] -- I've"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1418.7,"endTime":1421.892,"body":"seen ALT text that long before."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1422.031,"endTime":1423.7,"body":"I always wonder, like,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1422.031,"endTime":1423.7,"body":"I've -- I, like, I don't think"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1423.7,"endTime":1425.511,"body":"I've written enough,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1425.541,"endTime":1429.082,"body":"because I'm not even close to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1425.541,"endTime":1429.082,"body":"the 1000 and I have a thousand"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1429.082,"endTime":1429.531,"body":"to write [Todd laughs]."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1429.696,"endTime":1430.731,"body":"Yeah. I always-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1430.731,"endTime":1431.0,"body":"Yeah, you --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1431.0,"endTime":1433.836,"body":"-try to just like- like --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1431.0,"endTime":1433.836,"body":"just say the joke or what -- I"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1433.836,"endTime":1434.961,"body":"mean, usually, if I'm posting an"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1433.836,"endTime":1434.961,"body":"image, it's a joke, you know?"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1434.961,"endTime":1435.7,"body":"But like-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1435.7,"endTime":1436.0,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1436.086,"endTime":1439.7,"body":"-whatever the shortest"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1436.086,"endTime":1439.7,"body":"version of the joke is, you know"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1439.7,"endTime":1440.136,"body":"[laughs]? So I, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1440.136,"endTime":1443.287,"body":"posted one today and it was just"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1440.136,"endTime":1443.287,"body":"like, \"Guy's saying thumbs up,\""},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1443.287,"endTime":1445.267,"body":"or something like that, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1443.287,"endTime":1445.267,"body":"know? You know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1445.267,"endTime":1445.416,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1445.416,"endTime":1447.111,"body":"Like, that seem if -- to"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1445.416,"endTime":1447.111,"body":"me, that at least seems, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1447.111,"endTime":1449.436,"body":"usually, enough. I don't need to"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1447.111,"endTime":1449.436,"body":"give the whole --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1449.436,"endTime":1449.557,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1449.557,"endTime":1451.656,"body":"Sometimes I just don't"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1449.557,"endTime":1451.656,"body":"post because I don't know how to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1451.656,"endTime":1455.856,"body":"describe it. Like, \"Well, I'm"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1451.656,"endTime":1455.856,"body":"not really sure that I know how"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1455.856,"endTime":1459.336,"body":"to say and capture what this is"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1455.856,"endTime":1459.336,"body":"doing. So we'll go- we'll go for"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1459.336,"endTime":1459.936,"body":"something else.\""},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1460.767,"endTime":1463.3,"body":"Yeah. There's- there's a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1460.767,"endTime":1463.3,"body":"lot of debate around how long"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1463.3,"endTime":1464.297,"body":"should it be. It"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1464.297,"endTime":1467.116,"body":"should be 180 characters. Should"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1464.297,"endTime":1467.116,"body":"it be a certain amount of"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1467.116,"endTime":1471.646,"body":"words, but just as long as it"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1467.116,"endTime":1471.646,"body":"conveys in a short succinct"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1472.636,"endTime":1479.086,"body":"sentence? I guess, that's fine."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1472.636,"endTime":1479.086,"body":"And of course, you have some"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1479.176,"endTime":1483.287,"body":"images decorative that, ya know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1479.176,"endTime":1483.287,"body":"it needs an empty ALT text. And"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1483.287,"endTime":1487.876,"body":"that's a big one because I was"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1483.287,"endTime":1487.876,"body":"just doing an audit and they had"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1487.876,"endTime":1493.547,"body":"decorative images, but no ALT --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1487.876,"endTime":1493.547,"body":"no empty ALT text, which is"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1493.547,"endTime":1497.326,"body":"just the ALT equals, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1493.547,"endTime":1497.326,"body":"quotes. And it's -- the quotes"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1497.326,"endTime":1498.346,"body":"are empty in between."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1498.961,"endTime":1501.781,"body":"Can you explain that? Cuz"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1498.961,"endTime":1501.781,"body":"that -- I had just recently"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1501.781,"endTime":1506.5,"body":"learned about that, but still"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1501.781,"endTime":1506.5,"body":"don't quite understand why"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1506.5,"endTime":1507.471,"body":"that's the standard."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1508.172,"endTime":1511.757,"body":"So there's a -- i-it tells"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1508.172,"endTime":1511.757,"body":"a screen reader there's an image"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1511.757,"endTime":1515.7,"body":"there, but it doesn't- it"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1511.757,"endTime":1515.7,"body":"doesn't need -- it's decorative,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1515.7,"endTime":1519.636,"body":"basically. So it just --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1515.7,"endTime":1519.636,"body":"there's- there's no need to- to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1519.636,"endTime":1520.0,"body":"describe --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1520.0,"endTime":1521.5,"body":"So, what ha- what happens"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1520.0,"endTime":1521.5,"body":"in the screen reader if it runs"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1521.5,"endTime":1524.257,"body":"into an image with no ALT"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1521.5,"endTime":1524.257,"body":"attribute at all?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1525.297,"endTime":1529.797,"body":"It skips over it. So"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1525.297,"endTime":1529.797,"body":"you're loo- the- the user is"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1529.797,"endTime":1532.855,"body":"losing information. So if"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1529.797,"endTime":1532.855,"body":"there's something you're trying"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1532.856,"endTime":1537.567,"body":"to convey, like, let- let's use"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1532.856,"endTime":1537.567,"body":"the ... like an infographic, for"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1537.656,"endTime":1542.7,"body":"ek- example. And there's no ALT"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1537.656,"endTime":1542.7,"body":"text on it. That user, that's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1542.7,"endTime":1547.0,"body":"using the screen reader, is not"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1542.7,"endTime":1547.0,"body":"gonna, you know, know that it's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1547.0,"endTime":1547.356,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1547.997,"endTime":1552.836,"body":"Totally. Totally. And so,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1547.997,"endTime":1552.836,"body":"in the case of a decorative"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1552.866,"endTime":1555.5,"body":"image where we don't need to,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1552.866,"endTime":1555.5,"body":"like ... it's okay if the screen"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1555.5,"endTime":1556.317,"body":"-- you know, if -- it's"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1556.317,"endTime":1559.227,"body":"okay if anybody skips over it."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1556.317,"endTime":1559.227,"body":"What do -- you know, what is the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1559.227,"endTime":1561.446,"body":"tactical difference for a screen"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1559.227,"endTime":1561.446,"body":"reader -- for a user on a screen"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1561.446,"endTime":1566.0,"body":"reader between an empty -- an-"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1561.446,"endTime":1566.0,"body":"an image with an em- like with a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1566.0,"endTime":1571.7,"body":"ALT property, and just an empty"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1566.0,"endTime":1571.7,"body":"string, and an image with no"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1571.7,"endTime":1573.086,"body":"ALT, you know, defined at all?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1575.707,"endTime":1584.0,"body":"So, if it's okay, let's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1575.707,"endTime":1584.0,"body":"use a logo as an example. If"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1584.0,"endTime":1585.287,"body":"you have empty"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1585.287,"endTime":1591.257,"body":"ALT text on your logo, but --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1585.287,"endTime":1591.257,"body":"and it's also linked, the screen"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1591.257,"endTime":1599.116,"body":"reader will read that link, and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1591.257,"endTime":1599.116,"body":"you don't want that to read it,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1599.326,"endTime":1605.0,"body":"you want it to -- it da- it"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1599.326,"endTime":1605.0,"body":"doesn't really need to. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1605.0,"endTime":1605.382,"body":"there's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1605.382,"endTime":1611.352,"body":"cases where somebody may say,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1605.382,"endTime":1611.352,"body":"\"Yeah, I want the person to know"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1611.352,"endTime":1615.0,"body":"what the logo looks like.\" But"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1611.352,"endTime":1615.0,"body":"if it's not really necessary,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1615.0,"endTime":1624.342,"body":"no ALT text, you know, it's --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1615.0,"endTime":1624.342,"body":"screen reader won't read"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1624.342,"endTime":1630.5,"body":"anything. And as far as I know"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1624.342,"endTime":1630.5,"body":"-- and I -- I'll be the first to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1630.5,"endTime":1634.0,"body":"say, I'm not an- an- an expert"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1630.5,"endTime":1634.0,"body":"by any means with screen"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1634.0,"endTime":1636.326,"body":"readers, because this -- it is a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1636.326,"endTime":1641.5,"body":"lot of different stuff. I've"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1636.326,"endTime":1641.5,"body":"been learning lately, but to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1641.5,"endTime":1643.346,"body":"mine -- to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1643.346,"endTime":1650.096,"body":"my recollection, anyways, an"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1643.346,"endTime":1650.096,"body":"empty -- so the -- and -- so, no"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1650.096,"endTime":1653.3,"body":"ALT texts — let me get this"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1650.096,"endTime":1653.3,"body":"straight [laughs]. No ALT"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1653.3,"endTime":1657.311,"body":"text, the URL will be read to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1653.3,"endTime":1657.311,"body":"the image."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1659.307,"endTime":1661.0,"body":"Okay. Yeah. That's the big"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1659.307,"endTime":1661.0,"body":"difference. All right. That's"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1661.0,"endTime":1661.707,"body":"the part I didn't know, right?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1662.422,"endTime":1663.321,"body":"Yes. And --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1663.356,"endTime":1666.7,"body":"So there's no ALT ek- text"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1663.356,"endTime":1666.7,"body":"at all, like, no ALT property"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1666.7,"endTime":1668.547,"body":"fine -- defined. When a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1668.547,"endTime":1670.797,"body":"screen reader is reading it,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1668.547,"endTime":1670.797,"body":"it'll come through normal texts,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1670.826,"endTime":1672.506,"body":"and then it'll just read, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1670.826,"endTime":1672.506,"body":"blah, blah, blah dot JPEG-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1672.506,"endTime":1674.186,"body":"Yes. Yes."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1674.707,"endTime":1675.686,"body":"-right? Okay. That's it."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1674.707,"endTime":1675.686,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1675.721,"endTime":1679.892,"body":"And then the em- the empty"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1675.721,"endTime":1679.892,"body":"ALT is silent. So that's --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1679.961,"endTime":1681.7,"body":"And that means it'll --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1679.961,"endTime":1681.7,"body":"that tells it to skip right over"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1681.7,"endTime":1682.0,"body":"it, which is-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1682.0,"endTime":1682.3,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1682.3,"endTime":1685.0,"body":"-what you want sometimes."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1682.3,"endTime":1685.0,"body":"Like, sometimes that is the- the"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1685.0,"endTime":1685.7,"body":"preferred thing."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1685.7,"endTime":1686.0,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1686.0,"endTime":1688.3,"body":"Or like the decorative"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1686.0,"endTime":1688.3,"body":"image where it's, you know, just"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1688.3,"endTime":1690.7,"body":"a background image or something"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1688.3,"endTime":1690.7,"body":"like that, or -- probably not"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1690.7,"endTime":1692.832,"body":"background, but like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1690.7,"endTime":1692.832,"body":"sometimes-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1692.832,"endTime":1693.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1693.0,"endTime":1694.872,"body":"-it's just used for"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1693.0,"endTime":1694.872,"body":"decoration. Doesn't need to"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1694.872,"endTime":1696.0,"body":"convey actually information."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1696.0,"endTime":1696.3,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1696.3,"endTime":1699.832,"body":"And so in those cases,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1696.3,"endTime":1699.832,"body":"putting an empty ALT, like,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1699.832,"endTime":1704.862,"body":"ALT equals, you know, empty"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1699.832,"endTime":1704.862,"body":"string is- is actually very good"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1704.862,"endTime":1708.521,"body":"and much, like, very good for"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1704.862,"endTime":1708.521,"body":"accessibility because otherwise"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1708.521,"endTime":1712.632,"body":"they're gonna see, probably a"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1708.521,"endTime":1712.632,"body":"very long URL with dot JPEG,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1712.991,"endTime":1714.311,"body":"which means nothing to them,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1712.991,"endTime":1714.311,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1714.382,"endTime":1715.491,"body":"Yes. Exactly. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1715.721,"endTime":1719.0,"body":"Yeah. Oh, that's great."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1715.721,"endTime":1719.0,"body":"Yeah. That's one of those things"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1719.0,"endTime":1723.0,"body":"that it's like -- and I've seen"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1719.0,"endTime":1723.0,"body":"a lot of people -- well, this is"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1723.0,"endTime":1724.541,"body":"a separate topic. I -- but,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1723.0,"endTime":1724.541,"body":"like, that- that"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1724.541,"endTime":1728.711,"body":"little, like, pick that little"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1724.541,"endTime":1728.711,"body":"bit. That just- just -- even"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1728.711,"endTime":1732.642,"body":"just ALT and getting like your"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1728.711,"endTime":1732.642,"body":"head wrapped around how to deal"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1732.682,"endTime":1736.932,"body":"with ALT- ALT texts ... like you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1732.682,"endTime":1736.932,"body":"said, makes -- can make a huge"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1736.932,"endTime":1738.7,"body":"difference for accessibility,"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1736.932,"endTime":1738.7,"body":"making choices [??] for your"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1738.7,"endTime":1739.0,"body":"users."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1739.0,"endTime":1740.0,"body":"Yeah. Yep."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":1740.501,"endTime":1741.132,"body":"Ah, that's really cool."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1742.376,"endTime":1743.636,"body":"And you were talking"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1742.376,"endTime":1743.636,"body":"about one of the big problems"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1743.636,"endTime":1746.5,"body":"being color contrast. And-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1746.5,"endTime":1746.7,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1746.7,"endTime":1749.727,"body":"-that seems like"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1746.7,"endTime":1749.727,"body":"something that could be"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1749.727,"endTime":1755.636,"body":"pretty simple to identify with a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1749.727,"endTime":1755.636,"body":"Lighthouse audit. Can you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1755.636,"endTime":1758.606,"body":"explain what a Lighthouse audit"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1755.636,"endTime":1758.606,"body":"is? And if you're like, \"That's"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1758.606,"endTime":1761.787,"body":"not the way to go, this other"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1758.606,"endTime":1761.787,"body":"method is better,\" I would"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1761.787,"endTime":1762.207,"body":"love to hear as well."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1763.862,"endTime":1768.7,"body":"So, I mean, I've used"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1763.862,"endTime":1768.7,"body":"Lighthouse before. I don't"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1768.7,"endTime":1770.5,"body":"really rely on Lighthouse."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1770.5,"endTime":1774.661,"body":"At- at -- it -- Lighthouse runs"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1770.5,"endTime":1774.661,"body":"off of axe-core and- and which"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1774.662,"endTime":1782.132,"body":"is great. But I don't think it"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1774.662,"endTime":1782.132,"body":"really gets to the root of every"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1782.521,"endTime":1789.301,"body":"issue. And it really can't --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1782.521,"endTime":1789.301,"body":"plus you have false positives,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1789.301,"endTime":1792.692,"body":"which is, you know, something --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1789.301,"endTime":1792.692,"body":"it -- for example, I was just"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1792.692,"endTime":1795.932,"body":"talking about this on the -- in"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1792.692,"endTime":1795.932,"body":"the- in the Slack — Virtual"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1795.932,"endTime":1801.466,"body":"Coffee Slack. False positives"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1795.932,"endTime":1801.466,"body":"for color contrast, you know?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1801.467,"endTime":1804.737,"body":"I've come across instances where"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1801.467,"endTime":1804.737,"body":"it will flag color contrast"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1804.737,"endTime":1808.007,"body":"errors,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1808.007,"endTime":1813.676,"body":"but the color contrast is far"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1808.007,"endTime":1813.676,"body":"exceeds the 4.5 to 1 ratio. So"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1814.126,"endTime":1816.767,"body":"I don't really rely on"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1814.126,"endTime":1816.767,"body":"Lighthouse. I mean, it's a good"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1816.767,"endTime":1820.0,"body":"tool, don't get me wrong."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1816.767,"endTime":1820.0,"body":"Because there's that performance"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1820.0,"endTime":1820.635,"body":"piece to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1820.636,"endTime":1830.75,"body":"it that I really, really like"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1820.636,"endTime":1830.75,"body":"using. And as far as, you know"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1830.751,"endTime":1837.0,"body":"... it- it's a good tool, don't"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1830.751,"endTime":1837.0,"body":"get me wrong. But I- I use --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1837.0,"endTime":1837.851,"body":"and I used"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1837.852,"endTime":1840.432,"body":"to use it. I used to use it"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1837.852,"endTime":1840.432,"body":"myself. I mean, I used it on my"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1840.432,"endTime":1842.801,"body":"site and was like, \"Yeah, 100. I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1840.432,"endTime":1842.801,"body":"got 100 across"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1842.801,"endTime":1846.342,"body":"the board.\" And, you know, that-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1842.801,"endTime":1846.342,"body":"that virtual confetti"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1846.342,"endTime":1853.471,"body":"flying everywhere. But the tools"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1846.342,"endTime":1853.471,"body":"that I use would be the --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1856.067,"endTime":1863.7,"body":"it's a contrast-ratio.com, which"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1856.067,"endTime":1863.7,"body":"is Lea Verou color contrast"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1863.7,"endTime":1870.076,"body":"site. I also use the -- let me"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1863.7,"endTime":1870.076,"body":"look, I have it on my"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1870.076,"endTime":1875.596,"body":"other machine here, the color"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1870.076,"endTime":1875.596,"body":"contrast analyzer. And that is"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1875.747,"endTime":1881.7,"body":"by The Paciello Group. So Steven"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1875.747,"endTime":1881.7,"body":"Faulkner has a what -- based on"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1881.7,"endTime":1882.105,"body":"the Windows"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1882.106,"endTime":1886.156,"body":"version. The Mac iOS version was"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1882.106,"endTime":1886.156,"body":"developed by somebody else."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1886.156,"endTime":1893.926,"body":"I use that- that tool as well."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1886.156,"endTime":1893.926,"body":"And I will provide the link"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1893.926,"endTime":1894.497,"body":"to that. So that --"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1895.414,"endTime":1897.419,"body":"This great. I'm, like,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1895.414,"endTime":1897.419,"body":"really looking forward to- to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1897.419,"endTime":1900.598,"body":"diving into a lot of these"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1897.419,"endTime":1900.598,"body":"resources that you are dropping"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1900.598,"endTime":1905.488,"body":"right now. Cuz I think sometimes"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1900.598,"endTime":1905.488,"body":"I -- it's hard to know where"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1905.489,"endTime":1906.5,"body":"to start. And-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1906.5,"endTime":1906.7,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1906.7,"endTime":1911.429,"body":"-and I think that's just"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1906.7,"endTime":1911.429,"body":"a problem with teaching"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1911.429,"endTime":1914.413,"body":"developers in general. There's"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1911.429,"endTime":1914.413,"body":"not a focus on it. It's not"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1914.413,"endTime":1917.397,"body":"built"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1917.429,"endTime":1927.118,"body":"into most curriculums and -- at"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1917.429,"endTime":1927.118,"body":"all. And so there's a lack of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1927.118,"endTime":1931.773,"body":"focus, I think, as a result of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1927.118,"endTime":1931.773,"body":"that. And then not knowing where"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1931.773,"endTime":1936.114,"body":"to start, or if you're with a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1931.773,"endTime":1936.114,"body":"company that doesn't look at"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1936.114,"endTime":1938.668,"body":"those things, then I think it"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1936.114,"endTime":1938.668,"body":"can be -- you can find yourself"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1938.668,"endTime":1941.222,"body":"a while"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1941.223,"endTime":1947.223,"body":"down the path and- and not know"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1941.223,"endTime":1947.223,"body":"what you should be identifying,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1947.223,"endTime":1950.374,"body":"how you should be approaching"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1947.223,"endTime":1950.374,"body":"this. And so, the more that we"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1950.374,"endTime":1955.084,"body":"talk about it, I think the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1950.374,"endTime":1955.084,"body":"better. Where do you think"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1955.534,"endTime":1959.044,"body":"people could get started if they"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1955.534,"endTime":1959.044,"body":"want to learn more about"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":1959.044,"endTime":1959.403,"body":"accessibility?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1960.094,"endTime":1968.662,"body":"So the W3C has a great"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1960.094,"endTime":1968.662,"body":"intro to accessibility"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1968.692,"endTime":1972.982,"body":"class, which I believe is still"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1968.692,"endTime":1972.982,"body":"free. And yeah, it's an"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1973.042,"endTime":1975.947,"body":"Introduction to Web"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1973.042,"endTime":1975.947,"body":"Accessibility on edx.org. And"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1975.947,"endTime":1978.852,"body":"I took that"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1978.853,"endTime":1984.047,"body":"class even. And it was -- it's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1978.853,"endTime":1984.047,"body":"great. You can pace yourself,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1984.528,"endTime":1987.092,"body":"doesn't have to be real fast."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1984.528,"endTime":1987.092,"body":"There's no, you know, there's no"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1987.092,"endTime":1989.656,"body":"s- due date"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1989.657,"endTime":1991.907,"body":"or anything. There's a free"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1989.657,"endTime":1991.907,"body":"version. If you want a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1991.907,"endTime":1997.877,"body":"certificate, you got to pay a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1991.907,"endTime":1997.877,"body":"certain amount. It's like -- if"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1997.877,"endTime":2001.238,"body":"you put in four to five hours a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":1997.877,"endTime":2001.238,"body":"week, it's like four- four weeks"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2001.238,"endTime":2007.0,"body":"long to do. It gives a good"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2001.238,"endTime":2007.0,"body":"overview of, [clearing throat]"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2007.0,"endTime":2007.373,"body":"excuse me,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2007.373,"endTime":2011.7,"body":"accessibility, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2007.373,"endTime":2011.7,"body":"some- some of the guidelines,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2011.7,"endTime":2014.363,"body":"there's ... a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2014.363,"endTime":2020.542,"body":"lot of good information on the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2014.363,"endTime":2020.542,"body":"web, and I even have to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2020.542,"endTime":2024.532,"body":"pitch Nobility's website and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2020.542,"endTime":2024.532,"body":"their blog. They go over some of"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2024.532,"endTime":2030.337,"body":"the WCAG guidelines. And- and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2024.532,"endTime":2030.337,"body":"accessibility is also — I wanna"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2030.337,"endTime":2032.707,"body":"make this clear — accessibility"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2030.337,"endTime":2032.707,"body":"is more than just WCAG"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2032.707,"endTime":2035.077,"body":"guidelines."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2035.438,"endTime":2041.647,"body":"It's also about inclusive design"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2035.438,"endTime":2041.647,"body":"as well. Making sure,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2041.917,"endTime":2047.048,"body":"you know, certain demographics"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2041.917,"endTime":2047.048,"body":"aren't, you know, kept out that"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2047.048,"endTime":2052.117,"body":"they -- everybody's included,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2047.048,"endTime":2052.117,"body":"hence the name inclusive design."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2052.447,"endTime":2061.768,"body":"But, some other ... let's see."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2052.447,"endTime":2061.768,"body":"That's a good"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2061.768,"endTime":2064.797,"body":"question. Cuz there's so much --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2061.768,"endTime":2064.797,"body":"I mean, I guess, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2064.797,"endTime":2071.728,"body":"search would come up with a lot"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2064.797,"endTime":2071.728,"body":"of different things. Webaim.org"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2071.797,"endTime":2076.027,"body":"has some good stuff as far as"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2071.797,"endTime":2076.027,"body":"accessibility -- learning"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2076.027,"endTime":2083.018,"body":"accessibility. Level Access"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2076.027,"endTime":2083.018,"body":"does. Let's see. Who else?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2084.327,"endTime":2087.31,"body":"TPGI has good stuff. So there's-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2084.327,"endTime":2087.31,"body":"there's a lot out there that,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2087.31,"endTime":2090.293,"body":"you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2090.293,"endTime":2094.913,"body":"know, people can find on, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2090.293,"endTime":2094.913,"body":"know? Ev- even -- there's even"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2094.913,"endTime":2100.3,"body":"like courses on, I guess, u-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2094.913,"endTime":2100.3,"body":"Udemy and platforms like that"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2100.3,"endTime":2100.943,"body":"as well."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2103.853,"endTime":2106.613,"body":"So ki- this is kind of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2103.853,"endTime":2106.613,"body":"been your focus the entire time"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2106.613,"endTime":2109.373,"body":"you've"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2109.373,"endTime":2115.373,"body":"been working in tech. Was there"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2109.373,"endTime":2115.373,"body":"a reason that you went down this"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2115.373,"endTime":2120.381,"body":"path or- or something that kind"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2115.373,"endTime":2120.381,"body":"of inspired this journey? Or"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2120.382,"endTime":2122.463,"body":"have you just always been"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2120.382,"endTime":2122.463,"body":"interested in it?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2124.333,"endTime":2130.722,"body":"It started when a couple"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2124.333,"endTime":2130.722,"body":"of family members -- I have"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2130.722,"endTime":2135.0,"body":"like three family members, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2130.722,"endTime":2135.0,"body":"know, that have disabilities."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2135.0,"endTime":2136.603,"body":"Two have"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2136.603,"endTime":2145.012,"body":"motor skill disabilities, one"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2136.603,"endTime":2145.012,"body":"visual. And seeing the looks of"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2145.012,"endTime":2148.342,"body":"frustration on their faces when"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2145.012,"endTime":2148.342,"body":"they're trying to access"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2148.342,"endTime":2152.842,"body":"something that's inaccessible on"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2148.342,"endTime":2152.842,"body":"the web really got me motivated"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2152.842,"endTime":2161.362,"body":"in the beginning and carries me"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2152.842,"endTime":2161.362,"body":"to this day, really. I kind"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2161.362,"endTime":2168.7,"body":"of -- towards like 2018, 2019"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2161.362,"endTime":2168.7,"body":"was kind of, like, I guess"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2168.7,"endTime":2171.631,"body":"slacking off a little bit with"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2168.7,"endTime":2171.631,"body":"my accessibility, but I- I get"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2171.631,"endTime":2174.346,"body":"together"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2174.347,"endTime":2179.3,"body":"with our friend, Chris DeMars,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2174.347,"endTime":2179.3,"body":"in Burlington, Vermont. He --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2179.3,"endTime":2180.047,"body":"there was a-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2180.106,"endTime":2187.811,"body":"there was a conference and, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2180.106,"endTime":2187.811,"body":"know, he gave a great talk and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2187.992,"endTime":2192.972,"body":"that really lit the fire again."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2187.992,"endTime":2192.972,"body":"So there's been a really -- it's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2192.972,"endTime":2198.911,"body":"been like laser, like focus for"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2192.972,"endTime":2198.911,"body":"me, as far as -- since then. And"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2198.942,"endTime":2204.5,"body":"just the- the- the looks of"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2198.942,"endTime":2204.5,"body":"frustration on faces of people"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2204.5,"endTime":2206.0,"body":"that I've seen,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2206.0,"endTime":2209.831,"body":"trying to ac- access something"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2206.0,"endTime":2209.831,"body":"that's inaccessible on the web."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2210.461,"endTime":2218.416,"body":"It's just, it's very ... the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2210.461,"endTime":2218.416,"body":"word I'm looking for here,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2218.956,"endTime":2224.086,"body":"very -- it hits home. It- it"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2218.956,"endTime":2224.086,"body":"really, you know, being that I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2224.086,"endTime":2232.186,"body":"try to advocate for people that"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2224.086,"endTime":2232.186,"body":"don't have a voice. And I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2232.186,"endTime":2237.452,"body":"think, as- as accessibility"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2232.186,"endTime":2237.452,"body":"professionals, we all do. We try"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2237.452,"endTime":2242.0,"body":"to advocate for those people."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2237.452,"endTime":2242.0,"body":"Especially lately with"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2242.0,"endTime":2247.0,"body":"certain — I will use it in"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2242.0,"endTime":2247.0,"body":"quotes — accessibility"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2247.0,"endTime":2250.0,"body":"overlays, for instance,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2250.0,"endTime":2255.331,"body":"but [chuckles], yeah. That's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2250.0,"endTime":2255.331,"body":"basically where it all started"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2255.331,"endTime":2259.7,"body":"was just those family members"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2255.331,"endTime":2259.7,"body":"and friends, and- and just"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2259.7,"endTime":2262.0,"body":"seeing people, you know?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2262.0,"endTime":2265.711,"body":"the- the frustration and the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2262.0,"endTime":2265.711,"body":"point where they're ready to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2265.711,"endTime":2266.282,"body":"give up."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2267.967,"endTime":2273.067,"body":"Yeah. I- I was just with"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2267.967,"endTime":2273.067,"body":"Chris last week. He spoke at"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2273.336,"endTime":2277.7,"body":"KCDC, he -- along with Cass"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2273.336,"endTime":2277.7,"body":"Ferris. And they did an"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2277.7,"endTime":2278.117,"body":"accessibility"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2278.137,"endTime":2280.5,"body":"talk. That was the first time I-"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2278.137,"endTime":2280.5,"body":"I got to see him speak in"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2280.5,"endTime":2284.0,"body":"person. It was really great"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2280.5,"endTime":2284.0,"body":"because they both come at it"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2284.0,"endTime":2285.052,"body":"with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2285.052,"endTime":2289.58,"body":"passion and examples. And I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2285.052,"endTime":2289.58,"body":"think for so many of us, we have"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2289.581,"endTime":2293.001,"body":"a general sense of what"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2289.581,"endTime":2293.001,"body":"accessibility is, but we don't"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2293.001,"endTime":2298.876,"body":"have that broader sense of, you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2293.001,"endTime":2298.876,"body":"know, it- it might be -- there"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2298.876,"endTime":2303.257,"body":"might be a disability that you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2298.876,"endTime":2303.257,"body":"can't see or it might be a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2303.257,"endTime":2307.007,"body":"temporary disability or a mental"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2303.257,"endTime":2307.007,"body":"health challenge that somebody"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2307.007,"endTime":2307.7,"body":"is going through. And-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2307.7,"endTime":2308.0,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2308.0,"endTime":2310.126,"body":"-all of those things can"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2308.0,"endTime":2310.126,"body":"impact what"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2310.126,"endTime":2314.177,"body":"accessibility looks like. And if"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2310.126,"endTime":2314.177,"body":"you really look at the people"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2314.177,"endTime":2319.681,"body":"around you, you for sure know"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2314.177,"endTime":2319.681,"body":"someone that has one of those"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2319.681,"endTime":2323.492,"body":"challenges or- or you have one"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2319.681,"endTime":2323.492,"body":"yourself. And so, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2323.521,"endTime":2326.192,"body":"opening up the conversations"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2323.521,"endTime":2326.192,"body":"about this, you know, like you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2326.192,"endTime":2330.751,"body":"have, in- in like Chris and Cass"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2326.192,"endTime":2330.751,"body":"have, I think is so important to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2330.961,"endTime":2333.902,"body":"really making change in- in tech"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2330.961,"endTime":2333.902,"body":"overall."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2335.661,"endTime":2339.0,"body":"Yeah, I -- you know, you-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2335.661,"endTime":2339.0,"body":"you brought up invisible di-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2339.0,"endTime":2341.766,"body":"you know ..."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2341.766,"endTime":2346.297,"body":"disabilities. I have migraine"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2341.766,"endTime":2346.297,"body":"headaches. I get them when"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2346.297,"endTime":2351.306,"body":"something sets off. If there's a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2346.297,"endTime":2351.306,"body":"website I visit that has, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2351.306,"endTime":2357.306,"body":"know, animation or motion that"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2351.306,"endTime":2357.306,"body":"really, it's too much. And it's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2357.336,"endTime":2360.757,"body":"triggers a migraine. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2357.336,"endTime":2360.757,"body":"there's all that stuff that you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2360.757,"endTime":2366.541,"body":"mentioned and i-it's ... you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2360.757,"endTime":2366.541,"body":"know? Chris is great, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2366.541,"endTime":2371.0,"body":"know? I- I, yeah. I've, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2366.541,"endTime":2371.0,"body":"know, seen him talk, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2371.0,"endTime":2373.231,"body":"virtually, and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2373.831,"endTime":2377.132,"body":"then before the pandemic, and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2373.831,"endTime":2377.132,"body":"everything. And we've gotten to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2377.132,"endTime":2379.306,"body":"know each other. And he, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2377.132,"endTime":2379.306,"body":"know, he- he does a great job"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2379.306,"endTime":2381.48,"body":"advocating."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2381.88,"endTime":2384.0,"body":"Yeah. I think, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2381.88,"endTime":2384.0,"body":"even -- so, a couple of years"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2384.0,"endTime":2384.369,"body":"ago I was"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2384.369,"endTime":2388.09,"body":"diagnosed with ADHD. And it's"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2384.369,"endTime":2388.09,"body":"interesting how much I didn't"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2388.09,"endTime":2390.37,"body":"realize that impacts the things"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2388.09,"endTime":2390.37,"body":"that I interact with and the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2390.37,"endTime":2392.65,"body":"ways"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2392.65,"endTime":2395.5,"body":"that I interact with things. And"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2392.65,"endTime":2395.5,"body":"I- [chuckles] I feel like maybe"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2395.5,"endTime":2396.965,"body":"this is just a personal problem."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2396.965,"endTime":2399.905,"body":"But this is the conversation"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2396.965,"endTime":2399.905,"body":"between Discord and Slack for"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2399.905,"endTime":2404.135,"body":"me, like, I walk into Discord --"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2399.905,"endTime":2404.135,"body":"I don't walk in there. I open up"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2404.494,"endTime":2408.5,"body":"Discord, and it's immediately"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2404.494,"endTime":2408.5,"body":"just overwhelming, and-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2408.5,"endTime":2408.7,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2408.875,"endTime":2411.514,"body":"-I don't know where to go"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2408.875,"endTime":2411.514,"body":"from there. And then I just like"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2411.844,"endTime":2415.0,"body":"slowly back out the door, right?"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2411.844,"endTime":2415.0,"body":"Like, there's too-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2415.0,"endTime":2415.3,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2415.3,"endTime":2416.135,"body":"-much going on for me."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2416.356,"endTime":2419.0,"body":"Yeah. That- that"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2416.356,"endTime":2419.0,"body":"information overload happens to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2419.0,"endTime":2419.657,"body":"me as well [chuckles]. It's-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2419.657,"endTime":2428.811,"body":"it's like Slack, and Discord,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2419.657,"endTime":2428.811,"body":"and there's -- yeah, I was"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2428.811,"endTime":2435.0,"body":"on -- I was watching a Twitch"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2428.811,"endTime":2435.0,"body":"stream yesterday and the- the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2435.0,"endTime":2438.5,"body":"chat was going off, and I was"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2435.0,"endTime":2438.5,"body":"just, like, I just -- I can't --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2438.5,"endTime":2441.0,"body":"I wan- I wanna be able to lur-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2438.5,"endTime":2441.0,"body":"kind of read the chat, and I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2441.0,"endTime":2444.112,"body":"can't, because, you know, it- it"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2441.0,"endTime":2444.112,"body":"-- yeah. The-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2444.121,"endTime":2446.481,"body":"the information overload is a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2444.121,"endTime":2446.481,"body":"big thing too. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2447.889,"endTime":2452.929,"body":"So I, you know, I think,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2447.889,"endTime":2452.929,"body":"your background, you talked"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2452.929,"endTime":2457.4,"body":"about your journey through this."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2452.929,"endTime":2457.4,"body":"And it seems like you've been"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2457.429,"endTime":2459.679,"body":"mostly self-taught then. Is that"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2457.429,"endTime":2459.679,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2460.586,"endTime":2463.248,"body":"Yeah. I started when I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2460.586,"endTime":2463.248,"body":"picked up that Commodore 64"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2463.248,"endTime":2465.91,"body":"user"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2465.911,"endTime":2471.5,"body":"manual. And just, I- I love, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2465.911,"endTime":2471.5,"body":"know, to read, and I read that."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2471.5,"endTime":2473.771,"body":"I had purchased a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2473.771,"endTime":2477.821,"body":"book. It was a \"Learn HTML in 21"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2473.771,"endTime":2477.821,"body":"Days\". And it was like a big,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2477.821,"endTime":2481.871,"body":"huge,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2481.902,"endTime":2486.851,"body":"thick phone-book-like manual."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2481.902,"endTime":2486.851,"body":"And I read through that. That's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2486.851,"endTime":2493.242,"body":"how I actually to -- made my"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2486.851,"endTime":2493.242,"body":"first website. Not that I put it"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2493.242,"endTime":2499.632,"body":"out on the web or anything, but"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2493.242,"endTime":2499.632,"body":"then I- I graduated from"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2499.632,"endTime":2503.89,"body":"there on -- I went to GeoCities,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2499.632,"endTime":2503.89,"body":"and Angelfire, and Tripod, and"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2503.891,"endTime":2506.922,"body":"all those websites [chuckles],"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2503.891,"endTime":2506.922,"body":"if you remember those websites."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2506.942,"endTime":2507.612,"body":"Hm. Hell, yeah."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2507.972,"endTime":2512.411,"body":"And all the great, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2507.972,"endTime":2512.411,"body":"know, lime green, and pastel,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2512.742,"endTime":2516.559,"body":"and, you know, fluorescent"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2512.742,"endTime":2516.559,"body":"colors. And then, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2516.559,"endTime":2520.376,"body":"been a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2520.376,"endTime":2524.847,"body":"learning process the entire time"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2520.376,"endTime":2524.847,"body":"and I love to learn. So it's one"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2524.847,"endTime":2527.456,"body":"of those things where if I can"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2524.847,"endTime":2527.456,"body":"pick up something in a Slack"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2527.876,"endTime":2533.427,"body":"group or on a Discord channel."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2527.876,"endTime":2533.427,"body":"That's great. I've, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2533.427,"endTime":2539.947,"body":"keep learning every day and, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2533.427,"endTime":2539.947,"body":"know, learning ... lately it's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2539.947,"endTime":2543.5,"body":"been learning the intricacies of"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2539.947,"endTime":2543.5,"body":"the WCAG guidelines because"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2543.5,"endTime":2546.756,"body":"there's so much there, and being"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2543.5,"endTime":2546.756,"body":"able to — and I'm grateful for"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2546.756,"endTime":2549.576,"body":"this —"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2549.606,"endTime":2556.177,"body":"being able to work on the next,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2549.606,"endTime":2556.177,"body":"I guess, version, which is 3.0,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2556.987,"endTime":2561.097,"body":"which is a few years down the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2556.987,"endTime":2561.097,"body":"road has been a learning process"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2561.097,"endTime":2563.091,"body":"as well. And being a member of"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2561.097,"endTime":2563.091,"body":"the W3C is too. And being in"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2563.091,"endTime":2569.5,"body":"those meetings, and we're"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2563.091,"endTime":2569.5,"body":"learning so much from a great"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2569.5,"endTime":2570.322,"body":"group of people."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2570.942,"endTime":2572.547,"body":"Yeah, that's awesome. I-"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2570.942,"endTime":2572.547,"body":"I love that idea of just"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2572.547,"endTime":2574.152,"body":"consistent"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2574.152,"endTime":2575.636,"body":"learning and being open to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2574.152,"endTime":2575.636,"body":"learning, all of the time."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2575.636,"endTime":2581.3,"body":"Because I think, no matter what"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2575.636,"endTime":2581.3,"body":"part of tech or- or any"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2581.3,"endTime":2582.3,"body":"industry, really, that"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2582.3,"endTime":2585.612,"body":"you're in, the being open to"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2582.3,"endTime":2585.612,"body":"learning new things, and talking"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2585.612,"endTime":2587.697,"body":"through things with other"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2585.612,"endTime":2587.697,"body":"people, and understanding is,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2587.697,"endTime":2589.782,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2589.782,"endTime":2594.251,"body":"that- that's what growing is"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2589.782,"endTime":2594.251,"body":"about. That's what is important"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2594.251,"endTime":2594.882,"body":"to what you're doing."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2598.112,"endTime":2603.001,"body":"Yeah. And it's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2598.112,"endTime":2603.001,"body":"even I've, you know, learned --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2603.001,"endTime":2606.5,"body":"I learned on Twitter as well,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2603.001,"endTime":2606.5,"body":"you know? I see something, a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2606.5,"endTime":2606.722,"body":"link to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2606.722,"endTime":2610.262,"body":"an article or something, and I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2606.722,"endTime":2610.262,"body":"check it out, and it's like,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2610.291,"endTime":2614.7,"body":"\"Oh, well,\" you know, \"It --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2610.291,"endTime":2614.7,"body":"today I learned [laughs],\" you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2614.7,"endTime":2616.5,"body":"know? And-"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2616.5,"endTime":2616.7,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2616.7,"endTime":2617.981,"body":"-you know, I -- it's-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2618.041,"endTime":2622.5,"body":"it's, you know, there was a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2618.041,"endTime":2622.5,"body":"quote, and I'll try to find that"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2622.5,"endTime":2629.532,"body":"quote because I love the quote."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2622.5,"endTime":2629.532,"body":"It had something to do with"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2629.652,"endTime":2637.601,"body":"doing something ... yeah, right"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2629.652,"endTime":2637.601,"body":"there. \"There are three"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2637.601,"endTime":2643.976,"body":"things everyone should do every"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2637.601,"endTime":2643.976,"body":"day. Number one is laugh. Number"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2643.976,"endTime":2648.7,"body":"two is think — spend some time"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2643.976,"endTime":2648.7,"body":"in thought. Number three, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2648.7,"endTime":2652.0,"body":"should have your emotions move"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2648.7,"endTime":2652.0,"body":"you to tears. If you laugh,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2652.0,"endTime":2653.035,"body":"think and cry,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2653.036,"endTime":2655.256,"body":"that's a heck of a day.\" And"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2653.036,"endTime":2655.256,"body":"that was just like the best"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2655.256,"endTime":2657.476,"body":"quote I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2657.476,"endTime":2661.916,"body":"think I've seen in- in a long,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2657.476,"endTime":2661.916,"body":"long time. I even add to that"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2661.916,"endTime":2663.137,"body":"learning one thing a day."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2663.873,"endTime":2664.7,"body":"Yeah. I love that so"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2663.873,"endTime":2664.7,"body":"much."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2664.7,"endTime":2665.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2666.5,"endTime":2667.838,"body":"I didn't think, you know,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2667.869,"endTime":2672.0,"body":"learning things on Twitter for"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2667.869,"endTime":2672.0,"body":"me has been really big as well."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2672.0,"endTime":2675.7,"body":"Even when somebody just has a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2672.0,"endTime":2675.7,"body":"small portion of a tweet at --"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2675.7,"endTime":2679.0,"body":"for some reason, it sticks in my"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2675.7,"endTime":2679.0,"body":"mind better than if I read a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2679.0,"endTime":2680.7,"body":"whole article on that thing."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2680.7,"endTime":2681.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2681.0,"endTime":2682.7,"body":"And I think, maybe,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2681.0,"endTime":2682.7,"body":"because there's some type of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2682.7,"endTime":2686.138,"body":"personal connection there, like,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2682.7,"endTime":2686.138,"body":"\"Oh, I remember that person said"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2686.139,"endTime":2688.929,"body":"this one thing.\" And it, you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2686.139,"endTime":2688.929,"body":"know, it might be some type of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2689.199,"endTime":2693.1,"body":"coding tip or whatever, but I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2689.199,"endTime":2693.1,"body":"think that just be -- just"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2693.1,"endTime":2693.338,"body":"sharing"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2693.338,"endTime":2697.568,"body":"that knowledge or- or it's,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2693.338,"endTime":2697.568,"body":"\"Hey, I know that I could ask"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2697.568,"endTime":2702.849,"body":"that person that question,\" can"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2697.568,"endTime":2702.849,"body":"be really helpful in finding the"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2702.849,"endTime":2707.768,"body":"answers to things or having more"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2702.849,"endTime":2707.768,"body":"confidence in- in being- being"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2707.798,"endTime":2709.298,"body":"able to ask questions."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2710.208,"endTime":2715.0,"body":"Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's- it's,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2710.208,"endTime":2715.0,"body":"you know, I use Twitter as a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2715.0,"endTime":2719.0,"body":"tool to say, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2719.0,"endTime":2722.358,"body":"\"Oh, you- you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2719.0,"endTime":2722.358,"body":"something about the new, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2722.358,"endTime":2728.0,"body":"know, whatever coming- coming"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2722.358,"endTime":2728.0,"body":"down the line. I've got a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2728.0,"endTime":2728.418,"body":"couple"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2728.418,"endTime":2733.349,"body":"of questions for you,\" you know?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2728.418,"endTime":2733.349,"body":"\"Hey, can I,\" you know, \"DM"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2733.349,"endTime":2736.998,"body":"you? I got a question I need to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2733.349,"endTime":2736.998,"body":"ask.\" And it- it reaching out to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2736.998,"endTime":2740.869,"body":"somebody to -- or to the person"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2736.998,"endTime":2740.869,"body":"that, you know, had that tweet"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2741.259,"endTime":2746.7,"body":"it -- is -- and- and mo- you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2741.259,"endTime":2746.7,"body":"know, I don't think I've ever"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2746.7,"endTime":2748.743,"body":"had anybody go, \"No, I don't"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2746.7,"endTime":2748.743,"body":"wanna tell you the answer,\" or"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2748.743,"endTime":2750.258,"body":"anything like that."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2750.438,"endTime":2755.418,"body":"So, yeah, it's- it's always"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2750.438,"endTime":2755.418,"body":"been, you know, \"Hey,\" you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2755.418,"endTime":2760.074,"body":"know, \"I've got this question.\""},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2755.418,"endTime":2760.074,"body":"People are more than, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2760.943,"endTime":2764.304,"body":"more than welcome to- to, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2760.943,"endTime":2764.304,"body":"know, answer those questions."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2765.634,"endTime":2767.943,"body":"Yeah. And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2765.634,"endTime":2767.943,"body":"so big. Especially when we're"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2767.943,"endTime":2771.244,"body":"talking about this topic. If you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2767.943,"endTime":2771.244,"body":"don't know it is okay to ask"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2771.244,"endTime":2771.7,"body":"somebody-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2771.7,"endTime":2772.0,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2772.0,"endTime":2774.7,"body":"-right? Or ask someone"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2772.0,"endTime":2774.7,"body":"just to direct you, you know?"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2774.7,"endTime":2777.7,"body":"\"I'm getting started in this."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2774.7,"endTime":2777.7,"body":"It's not been a focus. How- how"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2777.7,"endTime":2779.7,"body":"do I get started? What do I do?\""},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2779.7,"endTime":2780.0,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2780.0,"endTime":2782.763,"body":"And you dropped a lot of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2780.0,"endTime":2782.763,"body":"great resources here. But, you"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2782.764,"endTime":2786.333,"body":"know, I think in- in every place"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2782.764,"endTime":2786.333,"body":"and space, we should- we should"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2786.333,"endTime":2788.7,"body":"know that it is okay to ask"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2786.333,"endTime":2788.7,"body":"about these things. And it's"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2788.7,"endTime":2789.813,"body":"good to do that."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2790.429,"endTime":2794.0,"body":"Yeah, definitely. You"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2790.429,"endTime":2794.0,"body":"know, the -- I- I tell people,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2794.0,"endTime":2794.357,"body":"you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2794.358,"endTime":2795.738,"body":"have a question about"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2794.358,"endTime":2795.738,"body":"accessibility, I'll do my best"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2795.738,"endTime":2797.118,"body":"to"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2797.119,"endTime":2800.3,"body":"answer. If I can't answer it, I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2797.119,"endTime":2800.3,"body":"will find somebody that can, or"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2800.3,"endTime":2803.3,"body":"I will look it up and see if I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2800.3,"endTime":2803.3,"body":"can get you the answer. Because"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2803.3,"endTime":2803.518,"body":"it's-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2803.518,"endTime":2806.3,"body":"it's- it's that little, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2803.518,"endTime":2806.3,"body":"know, it's that being helpful-"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2806.3,"endTime":2806.5,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2807.0,"endTime":2810.364,"body":"-in make -- you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2807.0,"endTime":2810.364,"body":"making sure that person has that"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2810.364,"endTime":2814.594,"body":"information, for me anyways, is-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2810.364,"endTime":2814.594,"body":"is- is big. And, you know, just"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2814.594,"endTime":2817.684,"body":"saying, you know, feeling good"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2814.594,"endTime":2817.684,"body":"about being able to help people."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2819.293,"endTime":2821.364,"body":"Yeah, for sure. That's so"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2819.293,"endTime":2821.364,"body":"important."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2821.364,"endTime":2822.224,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2823.773,"endTime":2825.7,"body":"Todd, we have about one"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2823.773,"endTime":2825.7,"body":"-- a time for one more question."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2825.7,"endTime":2826.817,"body":"And then -- and"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2826.818,"endTime":2827.958,"body":"I'd love to hear what you have"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2826.818,"endTime":2827.958,"body":"to say about this. Cuz I know"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2827.958,"endTime":2829.098,"body":"that"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2829.099,"endTime":2832.699,"body":"there still are companies out"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2829.099,"endTime":2832.699,"body":"there that are -- have some"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2832.699,"endTime":2838.398,"body":"pushback about paying for making"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2832.699,"endTime":2838.398,"body":"things accessible, or they say"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2838.398,"endTime":2840.588,"body":"like, \"Well, that's not our"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2838.398,"endTime":2840.588,"body":"focus right now because we don't"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2840.588,"endTime":2842.628,"body":"have the time or the money to do"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2840.588,"endTime":2842.628,"body":"that.\" How would you approach"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2842.628,"endTime":2844.668,"body":"that situation? Or,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2844.818,"endTime":2847.5,"body":"you know, maybe if you were a- a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2844.818,"endTime":2847.5,"body":"developer consulting on that,"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2847.5,"endTime":2850.398,"body":"you know, how would you kind of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2847.5,"endTime":2850.398,"body":"convince them that this- this"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2850.398,"endTime":2851.179,"body":"should be a priority?"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2851.643,"endTime":2856.463,"body":"Funny you mentioned that,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2851.643,"endTime":2856.463,"body":"cuz I wrote a article"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2856.824,"endTime":2863.7,"body":"about that, and it's on Smashing"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2856.824,"endTime":2863.7,"body":"Magazine. So I'll get that to --"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2863.7,"endTime":2866.981,"body":"link to you as well. It's- it's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2863.7,"endTime":2866.981,"body":"a very tricky slope sometimes."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2871.858,"endTime":2875.608,"body":"You know, I've heard people, for"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2871.858,"endTime":2875.608,"body":"instance, say, \"Well, you don't"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2875.608,"endTime":2880.534,"body":"wanna get sued.\" And that kind"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2875.608,"endTime":2880.534,"body":"of perks up stakeholders ears"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2880.534,"endTime":2883.353,"body":"and says, \"Oh,\" you know, \"Well,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2880.534,"endTime":2883.353,"body":"I guess we're gonna have to do"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2883.353,"endTime":2894.5,"body":"this.\" Me, I use real world"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2883.353,"endTime":2894.5,"body":"examples of ... for instance, I"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2894.5,"endTime":2900.7,"body":"ran into a stakeholder on a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2894.5,"endTime":2900.7,"body":"project. And I said, \"We gotta"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2900.7,"endTime":2903.5,"body":"make sure accessibility is done"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2900.7,"endTime":2903.5,"body":"from the very beginning of"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2903.5,"endTime":2907.5,"body":"the project.\" He turned to me"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2903.5,"endTime":2907.5,"body":"and said, \"We don't have"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2907.5,"endTime":2912.5,"body":"disabled users.\" I, in turn,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2907.5,"endTime":2912.5,"body":"said to him, \"You're wearing"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2912.5,"endTime":2913.233,"body":"eyeglasses. That's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2913.233,"endTime":2918.454,"body":"an assistive technology.\" And he"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2913.233,"endTime":2918.454,"body":"kind of perked up. But I'd"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2918.454,"endTime":2922.7,"body":"hadn't convinced him [laughs]."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2918.454,"endTime":2922.7,"body":"So the, you know, there- there's"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2922.7,"endTime":2923.402,"body":"some people that"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2923.403,"endTime":2927.934,"body":"can be very stubborn. So I went"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2923.403,"endTime":2927.934,"body":"as far as to say, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2928.534,"endTime":2930.754,"body":"somebody working, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2928.534,"endTime":2930.754,"body":"using your product, they can"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2930.754,"endTime":2932.974,"body":"have"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2932.974,"endTime":2935.554,"body":"a broken arm, it could be a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2932.974,"endTime":2935.554,"body":"situational disability. They"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2935.563,"endTime":2938.224,"body":"could have a broken arm. They"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2935.563,"endTime":2938.224,"body":"could be at home working with a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2938.224,"endTime":2942.094,"body":"child on their lap. That's very"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2938.224,"endTime":2942.094,"body":"fussy. I've been there a long"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2942.094,"endTime":2948.0,"body":"time ago. I know that feeling"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2942.094,"endTime":2948.0,"body":"and I, you know ... I know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2948.0,"endTime":2948.712,"body":"Bekah, you're"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2948.713,"endTime":2950.753,"body":"a parent. I don't know if you're"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2948.713,"endTime":2950.753,"body":"a parent, Dan, but, you know --"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":2950.853,"endTime":2951.253,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2951.753,"endTime":2955.264,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. So, you both"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2951.753,"endTime":2955.264,"body":"know that, you know, you have a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2955.264,"endTime":2957.7,"body":"child on your lap and they're"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2955.264,"endTime":2957.7,"body":"fussy [laughs], and then, you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2957.7,"endTime":2958.563,"body":"know, and you're"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2958.563,"endTime":2962.164,"body":"trying to answer an email or"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2958.563,"endTime":2962.164,"body":"something. It's very difficult."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2962.164,"endTime":2966.408,"body":"So, you know, getting teams on"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2962.164,"endTime":2966.408,"body":"board is another thing too."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2966.408,"endTime":2970.652,"body":"Where"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2970.684,"endTime":2975.918,"body":"getting somebody, a person"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2970.684,"endTime":2975.918,"body":"dedicated to doing accessibility"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2975.918,"endTime":2979.338,"body":"on the design side, on the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2975.918,"endTime":2979.338,"body":"development side, on the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2979.338,"endTime":2985.009,"body":"marketing side, that helps too."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2979.338,"endTime":2985.009,"body":"But the main thing is getting"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2985.009,"endTime":2989.0,"body":"stakeholders on board. If you"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2985.009,"endTime":2989.0,"body":"can get a stakeholder on board,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2989.0,"endTime":2994.0,"body":"then it should be ve- much, much"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2989.0,"endTime":2994.0,"body":"easier to get the entire"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":2994.0,"endTime":2995.498,"body":"organization on board."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2997.268,"endTime":2998.433,"body":"Yeah, that's great. I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2997.268,"endTime":2998.433,"body":"love that. You know, it all"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2998.433,"endTime":2999.598,"body":"comes down"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2999.599,"endTime":3003.228,"body":"to listening and being"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":2999.599,"endTime":3003.228,"body":"open-minded, right? If we work"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3003.228,"endTime":3006.7,"body":"towards understanding each"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3003.228,"endTime":3006.7,"body":"other, then we can all do a"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3006.7,"endTime":3009.139,"body":"whole lot more to improve things"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3006.7,"endTime":3009.139,"body":"for everyone."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3010.478,"endTime":3014.7,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3010.478,"endTime":3014.7,"body":"Definitely. Yep. And- and I've"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3014.7,"endTime":3016.5,"body":"heard it- I've- Ive heard it"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3016.5,"endTime":3019.268,"body":"before, \"We don't have the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3016.5,"endTime":3019.268,"body":"budget,\" you know? \"We'll"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3019.268,"endTime":3026.418,"body":"get to it after launch.\" Well,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3019.268,"endTime":3026.418,"body":"that brings me back to ... yep."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3026.418,"endTime":3028.998,"body":"If you do everything from the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3026.418,"endTime":3028.998,"body":"beginning, you will have the"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3028.998,"endTime":3033.0,"body":"money for it, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3028.998,"endTime":3033.0,"body":"it'll be less stressed. So,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3033.0,"endTime":3033.108,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3033.148,"endTime":3035.188,"body":"And you don't need to pay"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3033.148,"endTime":3035.188,"body":"for it or find the budget to pay"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3035.188,"endTime":3038.2,"body":"for a whole round of- of, you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3035.188,"endTime":3038.2,"body":"know, auditing and stuff like"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3038.2,"endTime":3038.454,"body":"that [chuckles]."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3039.208,"endTime":3045.298,"body":"Right. Yeah. And auditing,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3039.208,"endTime":3045.298,"body":"so, I'll use an example of a"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3045.298,"endTime":3053.664,"body":"company that got sued and what"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3045.298,"endTime":3053.664,"body":"they could have- what they could"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3053.664,"endTime":3055.643,"body":"have spent just with, you know,"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3053.664,"endTime":3055.643,"body":"doing it from the beginning."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3055.643,"endTime":3057.622,"body":"They"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3057.623,"endTime":3060.713,"body":"ended up paying seven figures"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3057.623,"endTime":3060.713,"body":"for an audit. So, that should"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3060.713,"endTime":3065.634,"body":"tell you something [chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3060.713,"endTime":3065.634,"body":"about that process."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3066.099,"endTime":3067.149,"body":"Right. And it shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3066.099,"endTime":3067.149,"body":"ever have to come to that."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3067.149,"endTime":3068.5,"body":"That's just-"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3068.5,"endTime":3068.7,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3068.7,"endTime":3071.494,"body":"-you know, absolutely"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3068.7,"endTime":3071.494,"body":"ridiculous."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3071.494,"endTime":3071.793,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3072.728,"endTime":3074.768,"body":"But I'm so glad that"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3072.728,"endTime":3074.768,"body":"you're here today to talk us"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3074.768,"endTime":3077.228,"body":"through this and drop all of"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3074.768,"endTime":3077.228,"body":"these great resources. And I"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3077.228,"endTime":3080.7,"body":"really hope that, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3077.228,"endTime":3080.7,"body":"helps people who are listening"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3080.7,"endTime":3084.878,"body":"to work through the stuff. And"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3080.7,"endTime":3084.878,"body":"to know that it's okay to ask"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3084.878,"endTime":3090.233,"body":"questions, and to grow, and"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3084.878,"endTime":3090.233,"body":"learn more all the time. So"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3090.233,"endTime":3093.563,"body":"we'll make sure that we drop all"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3090.233,"endTime":3093.563,"body":"those links in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3093.713,"endTime":3095.634,"body":"And thanks so much for being"},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3093.713,"endTime":3095.634,"body":"here with us today, Todd."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3095.7,"endTime":3097.0,"body":"Yeah, thanks, Todd."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3096.474,"endTime":3097.134,"body":"Well, thank you."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3097.173,"endTime":3098.074,"body":"I really appreciate it too."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3098.483,"endTime":3099.804,"body":"Yeah. Thank you both for"},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3098.483,"endTime":3099.804,"body":"having me."},{"speaker":"Bekah","startTime":3100.844,"endTime":3101.483,"body":"Bye."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3101.824,"endTime":3104.023,"body":"Alright. Bye, Todd."},{"speaker":"Todd","startTime":3104.684,"endTime":3104.873,"body":"Bye."},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3106.646,"endTime":3108.956,"body":"Thank you for listening to"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3106.646,"endTime":3108.956,"body":"this episode of the Virtual"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3108.956,"endTime":3112.476,"body":"Coffee Podcast. This episode was"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3108.956,"endTime":3112.476,"body":"produced by Dan Ott and Bekah"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3112.496,"endTime":3115.657,"body":"Hawrot Weigel, and was edited by"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3112.496,"endTime":3115.657,"body":"Andy Bonjour at GoodDay"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3115.677,"endTime":3118.467,"body":"Communications. If you have"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3115.677,"endTime":3118.467,"body":"questions or comments, you can"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3118.467,"endTime":3121.706,"body":"hit us up on Twitter at"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3118.467,"endTime":3121.706,"body":"VirtualCoffeeIO or email us at"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3121.706,"endTime":3124.136,"body":"podcast@virtualcoffee.io. You"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3121.706,"endTime":3124.136,"body":"can find the show notes, sign up"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3124.136,"endTime":3126.566,"body":"for"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3126.567,"endTime":3128.907,"body":"our newsletter, check out any of"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3126.567,"endTime":3128.907,"body":"our other resources on our"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3128.907,"endTime":3131.141,"body":"website at virtualcoffee.io. And"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3128.907,"endTime":3131.141,"body":"of course, join us for our"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3131.141,"endTime":3133.375,"body":"Virtual"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3133.376,"endTime":3136.226,"body":"Coffee chats every Tuesday at 9"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3133.376,"endTime":3136.226,"body":"AM Eastern and Thursday at"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3136.226,"endTime":3138.024,"body":"12 PM Eastern. Please subscribe"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3136.226,"endTime":3138.024,"body":"to our podcast, and be"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3138.024,"endTime":3139.822,"body":"sure to"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3139.822,"endTime":3142.882,"body":"leave us a review. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3139.822,"endTime":3142.882,"body":"listening, and we'll see you"},{"speaker":"Dan","startTime":3142.882,"endTime":3143.213,"body":"next week!"}]}